19 replies to this topic

[Shankpin]

Interview reveals how near death experience changed everything Neurosurgeon Dr. Eben Alexander thought he knew about conciousness, spirituality, and life after death.

http://www.skeptiko....ath-experience/

[Star of the Sea]

Shankpin, on 25 August 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Interview reveals how near death experience changed everything Neurosurgeon Dr. Eben Alexander thought he knew about consciousness, spirituality, and life after death.

http://www.skeptiko....ath-experience/

I watched a programme with Dr Eben just recently about his NDE. Fascinating and also coming from a Neurosurgeon too! Thanks Shankpin!

[Hilander]

Amazing story, I decided there was something more after seeing a ghost.

[Alienated Being]

We have a neurosurgeon who can't explain what happened, so he believes in life after death as a result?..

Interesting. You would think that an individual with such an education would be able to formulate a more logical reason as to the true reasoning behind the "event"... The brain is very, very susceptible to hallucination, so it was most-likely just that: a hallucination.

My thought is that he is ignoring scientific facts to try and justify his beliefs, simply because he WANTS to believe in something more.

[libstaK]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

We have a neurosurgeon who can't explain what happened, so he believes in life after death as a result?..

Interesting. You would think that an individual with such an education would be able to formulate a more logical reason as to the true reasoning behind the "event"... The brain is
very, very susceptible to hallucination, so it was most-likely just that: a hallucination.

My thought is that he is ignoring scientific facts to try and justify his beliefs, simply because he WANTS to believe in something more.

That just reads as "what you would think" about his experience.  How do you know it has anything at all to do with what he "WANTS to believe"?

He would have agreed with you about the hallucination before the experience - but then he had the experience and you haven't had one and it doesn't appear that explanation covers his experience adequately enough for even his science loving mind to put it to bed with.

I doubt he would be at all surprised at your response, I'm not.  "Materialist reductionism" is so comforting when confronted with the unknown isn't it?

[Alienated Being]

libstaK, on 26 August 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

That just reads as "what you would think" about his experience.  How do you know it has anything at all to do with what he "WANTS to believe"?

Because, really... there is no evidence of an after-life, hence it is nonsensical to believe that there is.

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He would have agreed with you about the hallucination before the experience - but then he had the experience and you haven't had one and it doesn't appear that explanation covers his experience adequately enough for even his science loving mind to put it to bed with.

So, because he doesn't agree with the most rational explanation (ie. a hallucination), that automatically indicates that it was truly the after-life?

I experienced what I think to be x, however... x has never been proven to exist; however, I have experienced what others have experienced. Therefore, x has to be true.

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I doubt he would be at all surprised at your response, I'm not.  "Materialist reductionism" is so comforting when confronted with the unknown isn't it?

Absolutely.

Edited by Alienated Being, 26 August 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[libstaK]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

Because, really... there is no evidence of an after-life, hence it is nonsensical to believe that there is.

This just brings up the circular argument that there is no evidence against it - it remains an unproven hypothesis to all those who do not experience it, the good Doc would entirely agree with you on that.

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So, because he doesn't agree with the most rational explanation (ie. a hallucination), that automatically indicates that it was truly the after-life?

He has already considered this - he is a nuerosurgeon and has considered a great many things.

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I experienced what I think to be x, however... x has never been proven to exist; however, I have experienced what others have experienced. Therefore, x has to be true.

x has to remain a possibility if it has not been proven to absolutely not exist.

Edited by libstaK, 26 August 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[Alienated Being]

libstaK, on 26 August 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

This just brings up the circular argument that there is no evidence against it - it remains an unproven hypothesis to all those who do not experience it, the good Doc would entirely agree with you on that.

But because he's experienced something, then that solidifies its existence? There's no other logically sound explanation?

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He has already considered this - he is a nuerosurgeon and has considered a great many things.

Yet, he chooses to side with the least likely explanation..

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x has to remain a possibility if it has not been proven to absolutely not exist.

Exactly. Unicorns are always a possibility.

[libstaK]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

But because he's experienced something, then that solidifies its existence? There's no other logically sound explanation?

If you have investigated this for yourself and are absolutely sure you know either way, by all means post your results.

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Yet, he chooses to side with the least likely explanation..

So it would seem, perhaps you need to do the hard miles and see if it is truly to be discounted.

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Exactly. Unicorns are always a possibility.

No one has ever claimed to see one - they show up in fiction stories, show me an account of someone claiming to have seen a Unicorn?

Maybe you should have said "bigfoot is always a possibility".

[Habitat]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

We have a neurosurgeon who can't explain what happened, so he believes in life after death as a result?..

Interesting. You would think that an individual with such an education would be able to formulate a more logical reason as to the true reasoning behind the "event"... The brain is very, very susceptible to hallucination, so it was most-likely just that: a hallucination.

My thought is that he is ignoring scientific facts to try and justify his beliefs, simply because he WANTS to believe in something more.

Come now, your "thought" is of little scientific value, being a product of the hallucination-prone mind you warn us of. If you want to trumpet the primacy of science as the only reliable knowledge do not bother us with your idle thoughts about what this man wants to believe, because you are only guessing, and science does not pay on guesses.

[Alienated Being]

libstaK, on 26 August 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

If you have investigated this for yourself and are absolutely sure you know either way, by all means post your results.

I've already posted the most logically sound explanation, but apparently he chooses to reject the idea, because he believes that it completely contradicts the idea... his belief does not indicate reality.

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No one has ever claimed to see one - they show up in fiction stories, show me an account of someone claiming to have seen a Unicorn?

Maybe you should have said "bigfoot is always a possibility".

Actually, there is an entire book dedicated to actually coming into contact with your own unicorn...

http://www.scribd.co...icorn-Sightings

A brief search on Google turned this link up for me.

LOL. I can't believe people believe in this nonsense.

[Alienated Being]

Habitat, on 26 August 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

Come now, your "thought" is of little scientific value, being a product of the hallucination-prone mind you warn us of. If you want to trumpet the primacy of science as the only reliable knowledge do not bother us with your idle thoughts about what this man wants to believe, because you are only guessing, and science does not pay on guesses.

Hypothesizing (i.e. "guessing") certainly plays an important role in the realm of science.

[libstaK]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I've already posted the most logically sound explanation, but apparently he chooses to reject the idea, because he believes that it completely contradicts the idea... his belief does not indicate reality.

"The most logically sound explanation" is a matter of personal experience and perception. It is not evidence that he has not had the experience.

The most logical and sound explanation to me is that you have not had any such experience and reject those that state that they have as being illogical.

Nothing else has been achieved here.

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Actually, there is an entire book dedicated to actually coming into contact with your own unicorn...

http://www.scribd.co...icorn-Sightings

A brief search on Google turned this link up for me.

LOL. I can't believe people believe in this nonsense.

That seems to be a populist piece of "meet your angels" type literature, not in the same vein and an unfair comparison by any standard.

[Alienated Being]

libstaK, on 26 August 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

"The most logically sound explanation" is a matter of personal experience and perception. It is not evidence that he has not had the experience.

The most logical and sound explanation to me is that you have not had any such experience and reject those that state that they have as being illogical.

Nothing else has been achieved here.

While I may not have had the experience, there are many who have, and still do not accept the silly idea of an afterlife.

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That seems to be a populist piece of "meet your angels" type literature, not in the same vein and an unfair comparison by any standard.

You DID ask me to provide an instance wherein an individual encountered a unicorn, and I presented an entire book dedicated to finding your "own" unicorn... this woman claims to have come into contact with unicorns. It is based on personal experience...

On top of all of this, this woman has shared the accounts of other individuals whom have experienced the same thing.

It is hardly an unfair comparison, by any means.

Edited by Alienated Being, 26 August 2012 - 02:59 AM.

[Habitat]

Alienated Being, on 26 August 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Hypothesizing (i.e. "guessing") certainly plays an important role in the realm of science.

I re-iterate, your "guess" is idle and gratuitous, unless you can propose a way to scientifically test that this guy wants to believe this. Otherwise, stop hallucinating ! You want science, you start giving us some, rather than exempting yourself from this rigour.