176 replies to this topic

[minera]

rashore, on 27 August 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Well, this all sounds a little alarmist. But let's go down that road, shall we?

I could see beef dropping a bit. Cattle do suck up a lot of resources, and if feed progresses on a tight cycle, beef prices will force some people to eat less of it. Which could have an effect on future herds.
Dairy could see a downturn- I know that isn't really meat, but if cattle start going down, I wouldn't be shocked if cows started going down too.
Pigs would kind of worry me- they eat a lot of feed too and if feed isn't available I wouldn't be shocked to see farmers return to practices that promote Tric. So pork might not drop as much, but it could return to the days of cook it till it's practically useless.
I'm not sure how much sheep would be affected, but they are a multiuse animal, so I'm betting we will hang on to them harder.
I don't think goat would be too affected, they eat anything.
I think poultry will just keep on as it has been- and may even see an increase.
I think fish farming could be hard hit, especially tank farming. Of course wild farming could be increased. Wild harvesting could get out of hand.
Game- wow, there's a lot to be said about game. It could see a resurgence on the dinner table- or it could be that farmers really strike them down in attempts to save their domestic stock.
Domestic pets and other animals of the "OMG you can't eat that" kinds. These may see an upsurge. If people are that starving for meat, they might start to question it less what meat it is.
And of course there is always large rodents- rats.

I do have to wonder though... If things got so bad that we had to start producing less meat sources, wouldn't that affect some plant sources as well? Or at the least, the way we use water for those plants? Why yes, it probably would.

Perhaps it would behoove us to not panic about water just yet. Perhaps we should start concentrating more on what we have. Food waste is an abomination, distribution sucks, and a lot people are flat out ignorant about food from a nutrition standpoint. I'm sure those subjects are probably rants for other threads though.

I have to agree with you. It is not a cut and dried subject It would seriously affect everything in the food chain. Before we get to that point maybe we should start to make use of what we do have and manage it better for future generations.

[Paracelse]

JGirl, on 27 August 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

Are you related to those guys????

http://www.dailymoti...alli_shortfilms

[Coffey]

It's pretty obvious this would happen.


I think it's good and what they should do is if you want meat, you buy the animal yourself and you prepare it yourself.

bones101proof, on 26 August 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

No, and I don't intend to ever try one either.

When people say stuff liek this it makes me laugh. I eat Qourn burgers and you can't even tell the difference really, especially between frozen birds eye burgers or fast food ones. The only time ther eis a real difference is with actual bits of meat like steak, pork chop or bacon etc.

Edited by Coffey, 27 August 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[Hilander]

This is a serious subject but the auquifers will only last so long and irragating crops will further deplinish them.  The only real answer is for the population of the planet to go down not up.  If the population goes up too much we will fight over water and that will be the end of that problem.

[Mbyte]

I've recently become vegatarian. My diet is far from perfect because vegatarianism was such a suddan move. I just couldn't eat animal foods anymore. If I'm hungry at night.... "I'll go get a bag of chips".

Anywho, becoming a vegatarian was always in me, it probably needed something just to trigger it and that trigger did happen. I was watching an english program called "Kill It, Cook It, Eat It". This is a program where people would watch the very cattle being killed that they would eat in a make shift well build slaughter house / reasturant. I learned nothing knew as I already knew how animals were slaughtered from documentaries like "Food inc. and Earthlings" It was the peoples opinions in contrast to the slaughtering that was perticularly intersting. Watching the slaughtering just made me feel that they were completely ****ting on the sanctity of the body. Our bodies channel our experiencal being and we had derived a systematically efficient way of killing lots bodies for profit. These slaughter houses were completely unecessary because here in Ireland we lived years with a few chickens and geese and maybe a pig (before my time) and home grown vegtables. There was a self reliance, a self sustainability. Suddenly industry rolls in with convinience foods and that lifestyle vanishes. Industry is designed to market to us what we don't need to create demand for things we don't need while yet our content and happiness level stay relatively the same. People may notice that it takes a lot of work to be a vegatarian, a lot of learning is involved. Thats how much effort it takes just to break away from the industrial food network because they alone are feeding us and providing us with nutrients. If I killed the animal myself or caught a fish then I'd eat it. Looking at 1/4 pounders at the takeaway parading around meat in a burger while thinking of the twitching body of a cow who someone effortlessly slashed it's neck to drain the blood was too much. Watching all those iraqi beheading videos didn't help either. Slaughter houses are uneccessary and the meat industry thrives because I fail to be a competent humand being and be self reliant on my ability to grow food myself, which is exactly what the industry creates/wants.

To state my views on the future. Oil is highly energy potent substance. Oil is the life blood of our economy. Oil makes the world go round, money makes it interesting. In my opinion oil is the reason slavery was abolished in america, because with oil, america could afford it. Slavery has now been industrialised and kept to china. What oil can't make, cheap labour makes in china. Multinational corperations thrive on these two things alone. We are at peak oil and oil will start to get scarce and get expensive and multinational corperation will feel the pinch. Multinationals spread and imbed their unbeatable market plan around they world providing little jobs while having a lot of shelf space to sell products which local business cannot compete with. Multinationals will crumble because of expensive oil and countries where multinations once ruled will be left half raped. The multinational will have closed down, leaving closed local businesses thus destroying local infrastucture which provided us with products and food. There is a battle between external infrastructure vs internal infrastructure. Oil is the main reason we have access to external infrastructure. When oil gets expensive our access to these cheap labour areas will be cut off thus forcing us to be self reliant. To try and make a nation self reliant is hard because at the moment industry permiates everthing. We will either volantarly became self reliant or we will be forced to be self reliant when the oil become expensive.

What does this have to do with food? everything. At the moment food is created in a massive hub and shipped around the world. This will not be sustainable when oil becomes expensive. All these industries are completely reliant on oil and are in an oil bubble because they are so above real life energy damands or natural energy demands(without oil). I've ran out of steam..... "Thanks god" says you

[Br Cornelius]

I am a long standing vegetarian of 20yrs. I occasionally eat fish and we try to keep a few chickens for eggs.
I wouldn't advocate the world going totally vegetarian because, as others have pointed out, a wholistic agricultural system  works best with an animal element.
However, in terms of diet I think most people eat entirely to much meat for their own good. We are now eating more meat than at any time in history - and it is no coincidence that we have the highest rates of cancer and heart disease in history. About 10% meat content of a diet is both healthy for the planet and the person.

Producing meat takes massive amounts of primary agricultural produce - which is fine if it is grass - but when it is soya or grain this represents a loss of 90% of the food value in the conversion to meat. This means that a vegetarian diet could theoretically feed 10x more people. Of course that is only the theoretical maximum and the reality is that most marginal land is only good for beef or mutton production so the real figure would be less.

So my solution would be - eat a healthy amount of ethically reared meat produced from grass rather than soya or grain.

By the way - I have a very good sense of humour

Br Cornelius

[Bildr]

I find funny how people are so much attached to their lifestyle, even if it is a self destructive life style, that they are SCARED of change. Why would it be so bad to be vegan? Me and my fiancée have turned vegan for over a year now and we discovered that we can be vegan and eat friggin delicious meal, like that Yves Product that are really god!!!!! so what is your choice; to use in a better way our resources for a sustainable future, or to continue in this idiotic self destructive civilisation?

[Abramelin]

Although I never craved to be a vegetarian (and most certainly not a vegan). my present finances force me to eat only chicken, eggs, fish, meatloaf and sausege as a source for animal proteins (and milk and cheese of course).

I think I haven't eaten steak for..... 3 years now? But occassionally I eat pork chops. That's because I have 'friends' who love to shop the proletarial way, lol. And I am not too ashamed to eat what they stole.

So, by necessity I know I can survive on a less animal protein based diet.

But give me a chance, and I would eat a cow, alive.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 August 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Abramelin]

Bildr, on 27 August 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

I find funny how people are so much attached to their lifestyle, even if it is a self destructive life style, that they are SCARED of change. Why would it be so bad to be vegan? Me and my fiancée have turned vegan for over a year now and we discovered that we can be vegan and eat friggin delicious meal, like that Yves Product that are really god!!!!! so what is your choice; to use in a better way our resources for a sustainable future, or to continue in this idiotic self destructive civilisation?

Because the vegan diet is unhealthy.

If forced to (by circumstances) I would change my diet into a vegetarian one, but never a vegan one.

[questionmark]

Br Cornelius, on 27 August 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I am a long standing vegetarian of 20yrs. I occasionally eat fish and we try to keep a few chickens for eggs.
I wouldn't advocate the world going totally vegetarian because, as others have pointed out, a wholistic agricultural system  works best with an animal element.
However, in terms of diet I think most people eat entirely to much meat for their own good. We are now eating more meat than at any time in history - and it is no coincidence that we have the highest rates of cancer and heart disease in history. About 10% meat content of a diet is both healthy for the planet and the person.

Producing meat takes massive amounts of primary agricultural produce - which is fine if it is grass - but when it is soya or grain this represents a loss of 90% of the food value in the conversion to meat. This means that a vegetarian diet could theoretically feed 10x more people. Of course that is only the theoretical maximum and the reality is that most marginal land is only good for beef or mutton production so the real figure would be less.

So my solution would be - eat a healthy amount of ethically reared meat produced from grass rather than soya or grain.

By the way - I have a very good sense of humour

Br Cornelius

It does not have to be meat, if you are after effective use of natural fertilizers fish cultures and using the water of those fish cultures in hydroponics could be way more effective that trying to raise cattle. And it would have the great advantage that it could also be put in marginal agricultural land as soil hardly has a role in it anymore.

As for cattle, meat is a luxury that over short or long we will not be able to afford if population growth is not curbed. But as in 2050 I will be 95 I am not so worried about it

[praetorian-legio XIII]

based on the design of our teeth, aren't we suppose to eat meat?

[Abramelin]

questionmark, on 27 August 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

It does not have to be meat, if you are after effective use of natural fertilizers fish cultures and using the water of those fish cultures in hydroponics could be way more effective that trying to raise cattle. And it would have the great advantage that it could also be put in marginal agricultural land as soil hardly has a role in it anymore.

As for cattle, meat is a luxury that over short or long we will not be able to afford if population growth is not curbed. But as in 2050 I will be 95 I am not so worried about it

If the present weather patterns repeat themselves for a couple of years in the future, it may well happen only a decade from now.

I think I want to try eating bugs and grubs. It looks revolting to me, but that is only a psychological thing.

praetorian-legio XIII, on 27 August 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

based on the design of our teeth, aren't we suppose to eat meat?

We are, or we all would have gorilla-like belllies.

Eating only herbs and nuts and mushrooms means you need a longer gut tract to be able to digest the stuff.

Those who are vegan were never raised that way.

But if they are, they will have developed some physical and psychological problems. Maybe they call their condition 'spiritual', but it is based on a lack of the right proteins.

We evolved from meat/carrion eaters.

Btw, Vitamin B12, anyone? There is no good vegetarian substitute for it.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 August 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[IamLegend]

This will never happen. If there isn't enough food to support the population, then the population will decline to a suitable level.

[Professor T]

FurthurBB, on 27 August 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

A healthy vegan diet is a very hard thing to keep and a lot of vegans are not dedicated enough to find out which foods can compliment each other to give you all the essential amino acids.  If you do not get them, your body will start breaking down your own protein to fulfill its needs.  Being vegetarian is not the same thing because you can eat nonmeat dary products which, like meat, provides all of them.

Thanks.. I didn't know that.
I quess this means that vegans are basically forcing themselves to eat an unnatural diet?

[redhen]

Abramelin, on 27 August 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Because the vegan diet is unhealthy.

Hmmm? Tell that to Carl Lewis, Olympic Gold medal runner, and Vegan.