176 replies to this topic

[questionmark]

redhen, on 27 August 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Hmmm? Tell that to Carl Lewis, Olympic Gold medal runner, and Vegan.

Being able to run fast while under the influence of doping is certainly not an advertising for healthy diets.

Next.

[Abramelin]

redhen, on 27 August 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Hmmm? Tell that to Carl Lewis, Olympic Gold medal runner, and Vegan.

And a dope user.

But I liked his role in "Alien Hunter", a scifi movie.

.

[Professor T]

Te he...
Isn't it funny that turning the world into vegetarians is on top of the Earth Disasters Forum.

[Br Cornelius]

Professor T, on 27 August 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Te he...
Isn't it funny that turning the world into vegetarians is on top of the Earth Disasters Forum.

Its an example of extremist thinking to insist that one size fits all.

It is perfectly possible to live a very healthy vegetarian diet (I would maintain that most vegetarians are healthier than most carnivores), but it is my experience that most Vegans suffer for their beliefs and are not capable of applying the degree of discipline needed to maintain long term health (though it is possible).
However the Indians do very well on a mostly vegetarian diet and it has allowed them to support a much denser population than almost anywhere in the world. One central factor which makes it possible is the reverence for the Cow which provides a steady supply of dairy products.

Br Cornelius

[Br Cornelius]

Here's just one example of a Vegetarian who reported a significant improvement in his health post becoming a Vegi;



Br Cornelius

[Professor T]

Br Cornelius, on 27 August 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Its an example of extremist thinking to insist that one size fits all.

It is perfectly possible to live a very healthy vegetarian diet (I would maintain that most vegetarians are healthier than most carnivores), but it is my experience that most Vegans suffer for their beliefs and are not capable of applying the degree of discipline needed to maintain long term health (though it is possible).
However the Indians do very well on a mostly vegetarian diet and it has allowed them to support a much denser population than almost anywhere in the world. One central factor which makes it possible is the reverence for the Cow which provides a steady supply of dairy products.

Br Cornelius

Interesting.. Thanks..
I take it then that some Vegetarians consider their diet as part of a belief structure, as opposed to a lifestyle choice.
Kind of bordering on religion?

[Br Cornelius]

My experience is that almost all vegetarians are strongly ethically driven to make the change. It certainly was the main reason for me. The spectre of factory farming is a blight on the humanity of our species.

I would not go so far as to say it is a religious decision for most though.

There is a well known study which shows that in Western society vegetarians tend to have higher IQ's. This has nothing to do with the diet itself - but shows that those who have though carefully about life and ethics tend to come to the conclusion that meat eating is unethical.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 27 August 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[mysticwerewolf]

i hope we can somehow manage to reduce the population so that i don't have to become a vegetarian, don't get me wrong i like ( most ) vegetables BUT i also love beef and pork and buffalo and elk and  many other kinds of food and don't want to give them up just because to many people want to over breed.

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 27 August 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Bling]

kobolds, on 27 August 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

another option will be Cannibalism

Now you're talking!  LOL

[Alienated Being]

I don't think so, actually. I think that meat will not require the murder of animals in the future, however. We've already produced meat in the absence of, well... other meat.

[Hilander]

Br Cornelius, on 27 August 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I am a long standing vegetarian of 20yrs. I occasionally eat fish and we try to keep a few chickens for eggs.
I wouldn't advocate the world going totally vegetarian because, as others have pointed out, a wholistic agricultural system  works best with an animal element.
However, in terms of diet I think most people eat entirely to much meat for their own good. We are now eating more meat than at any time in history - and it is no coincidence that we have the highest rates of cancer and heart disease in history. About 10% meat content of a diet is both healthy for the planet and the person.

Producing meat takes massive amounts of primary agricultural produce - which is fine if it is grass - but when it is soya or grain this represents a loss of 90% of the food value in the conversion to meat. This means that a vegetarian diet could theoretically feed 10x more people. Of course that is only the theoretical maximum and the reality is that most marginal land is only good for beef or mutton production so the real figure would be less.

So my solution would be - eat a healthy amount of ethically reared meat produced from grass rather than soya or grain.

By the way - I have a very good sense of humour

Br Cornelius

Cattle fed only grass is low in cholesterol.  Its the way they are fed that makes beef bad for you.

Edited by Hilander, 27 August 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[redhen]

One of the more serious arguments against these kinds of dire food shortage warnings is the distribution factor. The document in question http://www.siwi.org/...k_report_31.pdf acknowledges this. They report that 1 billion people on the planet are underfed, and 2 billion are overfed. Obviously there is an imbalance. But trying to rectify it would be just as hard as convincing people to become vegetarians.

The food distribution argment though does not address the coming water shortage. And if you think food rich governments cannot  be convinced to transfer vaste quantities of their food supply to food poor countries, wait til you tell them they have to transfer/divert huge amounts of their water too.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, that not many people want to talk about, is the exponential human population growth.

For those who pooh pooh these warnings from scientists about running into the wall of limited and finite resources; what do you believe to be the optimum human carrying capacity of the earth? Assuming: i) everyone lived and consumed like North Americans, and  ii) everyone lived and consumed like East Indians?


p.s. my vegan example, Carl Lewis, still stands even if he did take some over the counter cold medication. Even if he didn't win 9 Olympic gold medals, I don't think you can say his vegan diet harmed his health in any way.

Edited by redhen, 27 August 2012 - 11:32 PM.

[cerberusxp]

LMAO Lemmings I tell ya lemmings they are the future! Tasty little scrumpets skewered and BBQ'd. I'll stick to V-8 when I need a veggie fix. My wife's sister and husband eat squirrel.

[cerberusxp]

First off there is NO coming water shortage. Any water can be purified and I mean any. There will be droughts and rainy spells it's been happening since time began. You can drink urine you know. Sea water for example is simple to either reverse osmosis or distill. Whoever came up with this water shortage stuff needs to be slapped several times.

On the veggie thing I really don't eat that many veggies except when I make pot roast. How many top athletes are there that are purely vegetarian? That means no eggs no cheese and no milk as well. In order to get all the right stuff from just veggies you need to be somewhere where you can get all of it in one place. A wealthy country or one with the right types of flora and fauna.
I've been a truck driver for 15 years and most of my diet comes from Wendy's, Micky D's, and truck stop buffets. I have been the same weight for the whole time. I'm 6' tall and 195#s perfect weight for my height, oh plus I'm a chain smoker and drink coffee practically nonstop all day. So am I an exception to the obese bad health rule? I have cravings and I indulge those cravings some are special some are not. Like I'll crave candy for say a week and then lay off it for a month or so. I'll crave high acid fruits such as pineapple and others for awhile and then lay off for a while.
I meant to quote Redhen here but it didn't take.

Just have to throw this in "SOYLENT GREEN ANYONE?"

Edited by cerberusxp, 28 August 2012 - 01:54 AM.

[omerta]

Professor T, on 27 August 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

I think the world population would drastically drop if everyone turned vegan.. honestly....

It might just be me or a case of bad luck..  But every vegitarian I've ever met have turned out to be utter nutcases.

Seriously, they fly off the wall at the slightest hint of humour. (probably because of a lack of meat in their diet)
They hold grudges longer than normal people, They're far to serious, and they smell like cabbage.

The girl I have a thing for is vegan.
Why I'm attracted to crazy is beyond me.