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Religion and the U.S.


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#1    stargazer123

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:13 AM

I just had a long debate with people who claimed this country was founded on Christianity because many of the founding fathers were Christian.

Did I miss something because I am to understand this country was founded on FREEDOM not religion!

I was called an idiot amongest other things, how very Christianly.

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#2    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:31 AM

View Poststargazer123, on 30 August 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

I just had a long debate with people who claimed this country was founded on Christianity because many of the founding fathers were Christian.

Did I miss something because I am to understand this country was founded on FREEDOM not religion!

I was called an idiot amongest other things, how very Christianly.

Not too sure about if it was or was not based on Christianity, but if it was then why all the weapons and why in the early days did they wipe out or nearly wipe out the American Indian's

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#3    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:37 AM

View Poststargazer123, on 30 August 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

I just had a long debate with people who claimed this country was founded on Christianity because many of the founding fathers were Christian.

Did I miss something because I am to understand this country was founded on FREEDOM not religion!

I was called an idiot amongest other things, how very Christianly.

Yes this country was founded on Christianity. The founding fathers believed they were Israelites. It made it ok to take away the land from all the other "gods". Slaves were more submissive as well through this avenue. But IMO they did it in pure belief, even if it was gruesome. They were more mystical in those days, referring to rites that to us probably would appear more like "magic". The freedom they referred to was NOT the freedom of religion, but the freedom to build for yourself a dream life and God was the one who helped them get there. Freedom was also only available to the white man..



...as far as I can tell....

View Postbones101proof, on 30 August 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Actually, Muslims were in America before the Christians, I heard

Even if this was true, they were not the founding fathers.

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#4    and then

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:42 AM

Christianity was the primary religion of the Europeans who settled this country.  Our ideals have until very recently been Judeo Christian in nature.  I believe that the more "enlightened" we become, the worse trouble our nation finds itself in.  Go figure.  Those who scoff at Christianity never seem to make the connection that as bad as our system can be, it is still the most humane in the world.  Though the nations would never admit it, they will sorely miss the generosity of Christian America when it is no more.

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#5    notoverrated

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:43 AM

i think it was, but i dont think anyone in are gov really  believes in god now cause if they did no way they could do the things they do.

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#6    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:59 AM

It was not. It was founded as a secular nation. Most of the Founders were deists and most hate organized religion. This is well documented and is readily available to be found almost everywhere on the internet.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

http://www.infidels...._till/myth.html

http://hnn.us/articles/42835.html

and so on.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 30 August 2012 - 02:00 AM.

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#7    and then

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:42 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 30 August 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

It was not. It was founded as a secular nation. Most of the Founders were deists and most hate organized religion. This is well documented and is readily available to be found almost everywhere on the internet.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

http://www.infidels...._till/myth.html

http://hnn.us/articles/42835.html

and so on.
It was founded as a nation where people could choose for themselves.  But there is no doubt what the majority religion was at it's beginning.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#8    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:03 AM

View Postand then, on 30 August 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

It was founded as a nation where people could choose for themselves.  But there is no doubt what the majority religion was at it's beginning.
I'm not debating that it was majority christian, just that it was not founded as a christian nation, but a secular one, now matter how much some to seem to want to change that.

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#9    Beany

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:18 AM

Immigrants came to the New World so they could freely worship without the restrictions placed on them by the Pope & their kings. My Huguenot ancestors fled France because Louis XVI was killing protestants, the Pilgrims were being persecuted in England, etc. So while a lot of emigrants were Protestant Christians, it was not their goal to establish a Christian state; they understood from personal experience the dangers of a religious theocracy.

Edited by Beany, 30 August 2012 - 03:18 AM.


#10    stargazer123

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:32 AM

The founding fathers were predominantly Christian yes, but if it were founded mainly on those ideas why did the founding fathers feel we need to protect our citizens from certain injustices shall we say? if it were founded on Jesus and Christianity than there would be no need to bare arms or any stipulation regarding religion in the Constitution. There would be no need for lawsuits. There would be no need for the practice of any other religion or for any protection of citizens as granted under the Constitution of the U.S. Apparently the founding fathers saw injustice, they did not resolute to dissolve their religions but they saw the injustice in beliefs. Our forefathers were trapped in a time where religion was popular but yet even in that time they were forward thinkers. They contested things that no one at that time dare to contest. Freedom, I believe they were thinking freedom and something new and wonderful.

Edited by stargazer123, 30 August 2012 - 03:37 AM.

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#11    Realm

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostBeany, on 30 August 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Immigrants came to the New World so they could freely worship without the restrictions placed on them by the Pope & their kings. My Huguenot ancestors fled France because Louis XVI was killing protestants, the Pilgrims were being persecuted in England, etc. So while a lot of emigrants were Protestant Christians, it was not their goal to establish a Christian state; they understood from personal experience the dangers of a religious theocracy.

What Beany said, and I might add..

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....

Thomas Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

And my belief as to why, was the Catholic Church for centuries had an Iron grip over nations and the first amendment broke that grip.


#12    ZaraKitty

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:55 AM

I've heard that a few of your founding fathers thought Christianity was abhorrent and wanted religion and state very separate.

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#13    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:45 AM

America was founded mainly on Enlightenment era philosophy. Though I would argue America is a 'Christian Nation' but I would not say that it was founded on Christianity. The Founding Fathers ranged from strict Christians to Christian Deists to Deists, to Atheists. I would say Deism to Christian Deism was the main influence. Some FF believed in pure secularism but others believed religion (Christianity or not) was essential. The truth is that the FF are made up of a number of people with a number of different opinions.

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#14    SpiritWriter

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:09 AM

View PostImaginarynumber1, on 30 August 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

It was not. It was founded as a secular nation. Most of the Founders were deists and most hate organized religion. This is well documented and is readily available to be found almost everywhere on the internet.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

http://www.infidels...._till/myth.html

http://hnn.us/articles/42835.html

and so on.

It is also recorded that these same government officials were deep in religious sects and practicing among the "miracle workers", consulting with the God of Jerusalem (that is of Israel, of Abraham)...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 30 August 2012 - 07:09 AM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#15    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:19 AM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 30 August 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

It is also recorded that these same government officials were deep in religious sects and practicing among the "miracle workers", consulting with the God of Jerusalem (that is of Israel, of Abraham)...

Even if that is that case, it doesn't change the fact that the country was founded as a secular nation, not a christian one. Most of the founders felt that any faith was to practiced in private, if at all.

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