64 replies to this topic

[Mr Walker]

Does the christian /jewish/ muslim god, in particular, have free will?

Do entities labelled god(s), in general, have free will?

Any opinions appreciated, but rationales/reasons for your opinions would be particularly interesting.

You dont have to believe in the existence of a god or gods to answer this.

It is a theological/philosophical/cosmological  question,  which goes to the potential nature of god(s),

imagined, constructed or real.

Edited by Mr Walker, 01 September 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[notoverrated]

um idk can they even truly think? or is it just some kind of computer that runs programs?

[Artaxerxes]

I am deeply suspicious of free will and lean heavily towards fate and predestination.

I have no idea whether "God" has free will or not.  I know very little about the nature of God.   I believe we live in some kind of strange holographic universe but as far as a Creator deity and all that, I really don't know.   Many near death experiencers come back and talk about "the Light" and say the Light is alive and conscious and sentient.  

I think the most accurate way of explaining God is by saying that we are a part of God, perhaps each one of us is like a cell in God's body.   And that we are all expressions of God much in the same way that the characters on the holodeck on the Star Ship Enterprise are generated by the Ship's computer.

Art

[The Mule]

wouldnt be much of a god without free will, would it?

[QuiteContrary]

Where do you see evidence of a restricted will?

Imo, only humans can restrict a god's will.

[JGirl]

god is not a person, certainly god is not a human being and therefore the question is irrelevent considering free will is a mortal issue

[Mr Walker]

notoverrated, on 01 September 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

um idk can they even truly think? or is it just some kind of computer that runs programs?

That is for you to decide. Does a fully sapient and self aware artificial intelligence have free will?

[Mr Walker]

Artaxerxes, on 01 September 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I am deeply suspicious of free will and lean heavily towards fate and predestination.

I have no idea whether "God" has free will or not.  I know very little about the nature of God.   I believe we live in some kind of strange holographic universe but as far as a Creator deity and all that, I really don't know.   Many near death experiencers come back and talk about "the Light" and say the Light is alive and conscious and sentient.  

I think the most accurate way of explaining God is by saying that we are a part of God, perhaps each one of us is like a cell in God's body.   And that we are all expressions of God much in the same way that the characters on the holodeck on the Star Ship Enterprise are generated by the Ship's computer.

Art

An articulate and thoughtful response. Most appreciated, even if it doesnt help me answer the questions. Do you consider, hypothetically, that a god would be different from humans (who might not have free will,) in having free will as a aspect of their nature power, or is your belief in the predeterminism of life/the universe so complete that it even encompasses god(s)?

Ps, out of interest , what evidences, experiences, or logical deductions/rationales, " leans you heavily towards fate and predestination"?

Edited by Mr Walker, 01 September 2012 - 06:45 AM.

[Mr Walker]

The Mule, on 01 September 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

wouldnt be much of a god without free will, would it?

Do you extend that analogy/statement towards humans as well? I am interested in this statement as it goes to the heart of what a god is, and also to whether a god is fundamentally the same as, or different from, any other sapient self aware entity.

[The Mule]

lack of freewill relieves oneself from responisiblity of their actions. Lack of freewill is then just a BS excuse, for gods or mortals. But again, a god lacking in freewill would not be much of a god.

[dlonewolf85]

In my opinion, the question regarding the existence of something called either free-will or of predeterminism cannot be answered or even imagined, without knowing whether there is a purpose for any of this. I mean, without knowing the purpose of existence of life, this universe or an entity called god (if it does exist), I don't see how the question of free will or destiny can be answered. Just a thought...

[Mr Walker]

JGirl, on 01 September 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

god is not a person, certainly god is not a human being and therefore the question is irrelevent considering free will is a mortal issue

Do you consider god to be sapient and self aware? Can a god alter the universe through the application of thought, intent and /or technology? Do you think a god is aware of the consequences of its actions? Does a god form intent, and act on that  intent ? Or is your construct of god basically of an immaterial and non conscious entity? Or are you saying that god must have free will, while mortal humans  may not?

The relevance of the question is in eliciting thoughts and opinions from people on the nature of god as they see it /him

[Mr Walker]

QuiteContrary, on 01 September 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Where do you see evidence of a restricted will?

Imo, only humans can restrict a god's will.

Moi? I see no evidence of any true restriction on the free will of any sapient self aware entity. There appears to be no physical restriction preventing the formation of intent, or of the capacity to initiate action based on intent. IMO all self aware sapient entities, including gods and humans have free will, as a consequence of their self awareness. Any entity which can extrapolate the results of their actions and form decisions in that knowledge, inherently has free will.

[Mr Walker]

The Mule, on 01 September 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

lack of freewill relieves oneself from responisiblity of their actions. Lack of freewill is then just a BS excuse, for gods or mortals. But again, a god lacking in freewill would not be much of a god.

I tend to agree.  At least in can be used in this manner.
So you argue that humans AND gods have free will and the responsibility which comes from that?

[Mr Walker]

dlonewolf85, on 01 September 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

In my opinion, the question regarding the existence of something called either free-will or of predeterminism cannot be answered or even imagined, without knowing whether there is a purpose for any of this. I mean, without knowing the purpose of existence of life, this universe or an entity called god (if it does exist), I don't see how the question of free will or destiny can be answered. Just a thought...

OK so , in your opinion, you cannot know. What do you choose to BELIEVE? Do you believe you have free will ? Do you believe somethng we call a god would have free will. Does it make a material difference what you (or others) believe?
In other words, can believing in free will cause people to create quite different outcomes in their world,  from  what would occur, from them NOT believing in free will?