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Does god have free will?


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#61    rimbaudelaire

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 04 September 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Thats one of the reasons I am not too keen on university philosophy courses  lol; they give lots of people funny ideas. Free will and choice is not limited by gravity. How can gravity negate  my WILL? How can gravity  prevent me from execising the intent of my will?

It cannot. Gravity can only influence the condsequence of an action, and as this consequence comes after a thought and a deed, it has no power to proscribe or prevent my thoughts or deed.

For example I see a tall cliff. I know that if i walk off it, i will die from the effects of gravity. But that knowledge cannot prevent me making a decision to walk of the cliff, nor prevent me from doing so It is my free willed choice to do so or not. Knowledge informs and empowers us and allows beteer choices but it has no physicl effect on free will for example i  see a wall i front of me Despite wah ti know about walls i decide that this time maybe i wil be able to walk right through it. So i decide to I walk right up to it and through it, and (probably) I bounce of with a sore nose. But none of my knowledge prevented me from constructing an intent(will) or exercising that intent (action) I have complete freedom of will and action. Mos tliely the wall stoped me from  succeding but that does not impede either my will or my action. There is nothing in human physiolgy to limit our abilty to form intent (exercise our will ) or  attemept to act on it. Every day i spread my arms, face into the wind, run, and  try to fly.  I rarely succeed. BUT when I strap on a hang glider and do the same thing, yippee I am up and away flying like a bird.  If i was impeded in my will or actions I could never have learned to hang glide. Something in my mind or physiology would have prevented me thinking it was possible or stopped me from trying it. But nothing does. Thats true of everything.

Go back and tell your philosophy professors to think again :devil:  If they are good enough they will get the joke.  There are things unconnected to will  Like whether we are born male or female or still born.That doesnt negate the freedom of our will. Freedom of will can logically only apply where will is possible. A stone doesnt have a will. A flower has no choice when to open or close I have no choice about being born . But of course a human CAN apply will to many things, even gender and sexuality If you want to you can change your gender up to a point If you want to.

(Not that i would recpmmed this, but you can chose your sexual  partners contrary to your genetic preferences There is nothing to stop you doing so) Even within things predetermined, like our eventual death, we do and have to make choices and those choices are freely made and acted on. Nothing forces us into one decision/intent or another. That's just a belief.

And where will is concerned, there is no physical predestination. For example gravity causes water to run down hill. It thus appears predestined that this wil happen. No  will is involved; but invoke a human's will and we can make water run uphill.

Geez Louise Mr Walker, you bring up some juicy talking points. I really wish I had the time to engage them but I'm in a Doctoral program that requires 99% of my awake time and 98% of my sleep time ;).

Do you know anything about the Jewish concept of Free Will, specifically Yetzer Ra and Yetzer Tov?


#62    Mr Walker

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:32 AM

View Postrimbaudelaire, on 04 September 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Geez Louise Mr Walker, you bring up some juicy talking points. I really wish I had the time to engage them but I'm in a Doctoral program that requires 99% of my awake time and 98% of my sleep time ;).

Do you know anything about the Jewish concept of Free Will, specifically Yetzer Ra and Yetzer Tov?
Im glad you were not offended. I did not intend to be confrontational, but obviously this is something i feel passionate about and have been considering and reading about for  over 5 decades. I really like judaism and its contribution to western and human civilization and society and the way we think as modern humans. I have not studied particularly/specifically the jewish concept of free will, but it is inherent in a study of judaism and its belief structure. It also comes out via a variety of writers and authors.  It is one of the contributions of judaism to our way of thinking.
I am not sure when the concepts of yetzer ra and yetzer tov were introduced into judaism. Today they seem very modern, reasonable, and psychologically sound structures, but i am sure that, once upon a time, they would have been considered radical beliefs about the nature  of human thought motivations and conscience.

I suspect we are more complex than these two fairly simple concepts suggest, but they are logical and sensible, as far as they go, to explain human duality.

Edited by Mr Walker, 05 September 2012 - 09:33 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#63    Ely

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

just few examples, my friends :tu: :)
page 34

Urantia said:

...
(34.2) 2:1.3 Notwithstanding the infinity of the stupendous manifestations of the Father’s eternal and
universal personality, he is unqualifiedly self-conscious of both his infinity and eternity; likewise he knows
fully his perfection and power. He is the only being in the universe, aside from his divine co-ordinates, who
experiences a perfect, proper, and complete appraisal of himself.
(34.3) 2:1.4 The Father constantly and unfailingly meets the need of the differential of demand for himself as
it changes from time to time in various sections of his master universe. The great God knows and
understands himself; he is infinitely self-conscious of all his primal attributes of perfection. God is not a
cosmic accident; neither is he a universe experimenter. The Universe Sovereigns may engage in adventure;
the Constellation Fathers may experiment; the system heads may practice; but the Universal Father sees
the end from the beginning, and his divine plan and eternal purpose actually embrace and comprehend all
the experiments and all the adventures of all his subordinates in every world, system, and constellation in
every universe of his vast domains.
(34.4) 2:1.5 No thing is new to God, and no cosmic event ever comes as a surprise; he inhabits the circle of
eternity. He is without beginning or end of days. To God there is no past, present, or future; all time is
present at any given moment. He is the great and only I AM.
...
page 29

Urantia said:

...
(29.2) 1:5.12 In the contemplation of Deity, the concept of personality must be divested of the idea of
corporeality. A material body is not indispensable to personality in either man or God. The corporeality error
is shown in both extremes of human philosophy. In materialism, since man loses his body at death, he
ceases to exist as a personality; in pantheism, since God has no body, he is not, therefore, a person. The
superhuman type of progressing personality functions in a union of mind and spirit.
...
sources

http://www.urantia.o...niversal-father
http://www.urantia.o...er-2-nature-god

EVERYONE'S PERSONAL SAVING-HOPE ... those who have died unjustly & beyond horribly, GOD returns them their personal lives, so i learned in a certain Revelation ... EVERYONE'S PERSONAL SAVING-HOPE--->also: http://www.unexplain...tatus_id=242661
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#64    Mr Walker

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

View PostEly, on 07 September 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

just few examples, my friends :tu: :)
page 34

page 29

sources

http://www.urantia.o...niversal-father
http://www.urantia.o...er-2-nature-god

Thanks. I have read the entire urantia "journals" Fascinating stuff especially the alternate history of christ's early life.  The nature of the revelation is also quite interesting and seems more soundly based than some such,  although I suspend both belief and disbelief.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#65    Alannis

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:14 AM

Considering a lot of things I think he truly does. He has to have some type of rules and regulations to follow I mean he can't randomly decide one day "LOL gonna kill you guys for no reason. Watch out for destruction Bros!" Then again who says He can't? Humans have free will and so does God. Humans have limits thought even with a mortal body we can still die, but God does not He's immortal.





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