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Christians should leave their beliefs at home

christians crosses

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:07 PM

Christians should leave their religious beliefs at home or accept that a personal expression of faith at work, such as wearing a cross, means they might have to resign and get another job, government lawyers have said.

Landmark cases, brought by four British Christians, including two workers forced out of their jobs after visibly wearing crosses, have been heard today at the European Court of Human Rights

David Cameron, the Prime Minister, has previously pledged to change the law to protect religious expression at work but official legal submissions on Tuesday to Strasbourg human rights judges made a clear “difference between the professional and private sphere”.

http://www.telegraph...nother-job.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19472438

Edited by Still Waters, 04 September 2012 - 01:30 PM.
Additional source link added

Posted Image

#2    libstaK

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:17 PM

If you don't believe in it, it's just jewellery.  Everybody is so precious these days about what affronts them imo.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#3    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:35 PM

Although 'leaving one's religion at home' when you are at your work seems like a good idea, I think this is a bit over the top.

If I would be a patient in a hospital, and a nurse helped me, I wouldn't care if she wore a cross, a crescent moon, a Star of David, or what have we. But I would have a problem is she started 'preaching' to me.


#4    shadowhive

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

I think it largely depends on the situation. If you've got a workplace and it says 'no jewellery' that should be it, none of any kind. Religions shouldn't get an exemption there. Other than that, if your religion gets in the way of your job then it becomes a problem and should be treated as such.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
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#5    GreenmansGod

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

Quote

Dinah Rose QC, acting for Ms Ladele, attacked the government’s argument as “startling” because it appeared to suggest that an employer can discriminate against someone on religious grounds, such as anti-Semitism, as long as the employee was able to leave their job and find another one elsewhere.

“An employer could have a policy of refusing to employ Jews because other employers will employ them,” she observed.
They need to be very careful how they word the law, it could be an ugly precedent.  The easy out for an employer is just ban all jewelry. I have worked many places who baned jewelry, mostly for safety reasons. Pagans have a lot of trouble with the jewelry we wear. Many people flip-out when they see pentacles.   I know many Pagans who keep the religious practice secret, because they would lose their jobs if their employers knew.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#6    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:41 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 04 September 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

If you don't believe in it, it's just jewellery.  Everybody is so precious these days about what affronts them imo.

I remember I once had a collegue who was a Hindi from Surinam, and you bet he was a Hindi, quite a fanatic one if you ask me.

But he wore all of the above, lol. So one day, out of curiosity, I asked him why he wore a Christian cross (at that moment he didn't have the others yet). He then asked in return, "Why, can I not wear that? I just like it". So I said, "You can wear a brick if you like, I don't care. I was just being curious."


#7    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:44 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 04 September 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

I think it largely depends on the situation. If you've got a workplace and it says 'no jewellery' that should be it, none of any kind. Religions shouldn't get an exemption there. Other than that, if your religion gets in the way of your job then it becomes a problem and should be treated as such.

Most of the times that is a safety measure: when you work at some machine it's not a very good idea to have a necklace dangling from your neck when you have to bend over a running machine to do some adjustments.


#8    tyrant lizard

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

I've always thought it was a bit weird folk wearing crosses anyway. J.C was murdered on a cross, I'd hate crucifixes if he was my God's son. If Jesus had been born in the 20th century would people be walking round with gallows/electric chairs/firing squads around their necks?


#9    notoverrated

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

i dont see a problem with wearing a necklace.

If your not after beauty, then why are you even drawing breath?

#10    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:10 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 04 September 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I've always thought it was a bit weird folk wearing crosses anyway. J.C was murdered on a cross, I'd hate crucifixes if he was my God's son. If Jesus had been born in the 20th century would people be walking round with gallows/electric chairs/firing squads around their necks?

There are even Christians who think like that, and wear a fish symbol instead:

Posted Image


And some won't believe what I am wearing: a small silver Hand of Fatima.

Well, it was just a present, and I like the shape of the thing.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 September 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#11    rashore

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:33 PM

I'm not sure all 4 people should be on the same case. From the looks of it, two of them have a jewelry complaint. But two of them look like they were uncomfortable with or refused to their job.

The two people that are complaining just about the jewelry- well, different places have different rules. I personally see nothing wrong with anyone wearing appropriate jewelry to work. Appropriate like don't wear dangly stuff if you work with machines, or various jewelry if you work with food, or large awful stuff if you work in a low key office. I don't think the shape of the jewelry should make a difference, people wear a lot of different stuff that has meaning to them.
The two people who weren't comfortable with or refused to do an aspect of their job. I don't care what their reasoning is behind it, either they can/will do their job or not. If not, they probably shouldn't be holding the job. It's uncomfortable for them obviously, and it's not right to expect their employers to bend the job to suit their preferences.


#12    libstaK

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:38 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 04 September 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I've always thought it was a bit weird folk wearing crosses anyway. J.C was murdered on a cross, I'd hate crucifixes if he was my God's son. If Jesus had been born in the 20th century would people be walking round with gallows/electric chairs/firing squads around their necks?
It doesn't relate that way to me though.  I see several things at once, the horizontal (or earthly) path intersected with the spiritual (or vertical path) and the intersection - where they meet.  I also see sacrifice, literally for all mankind, not least of which is the sacrifice of what we "want" aka: Jesus could have had many desires fulfilled by shirking the path and not creating the enemies he did but he stood his ground because it was of more value than any earthly desire could warrant.  The cross was emblematic of his choice, his burden to bear.

Those are just a couple, the cross means so many things to folk, not all of them christian in origin but the christian cross is very distinctive and layered with many meanings not just the obvious too.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#13    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

View Postnotoverrated, on 04 September 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

i dont see a problem with wearing a necklace.

Posted Image

He didn't have any problems either, lol.


#14    Euphorbia

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 04 September 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

It doesn't relate that way to me though.  I see several things at once, the horizontal (or earthly) path intersected with the spiritual (or vertical path) and the intersection - where they meet.  I also see sacrifice, literally for all mankind, not least of which is the sacrifice of what we "want" aka: Jesus could have had many desires fulfilled by shirking the path and not creating the enemies he did but he stood his ground because it was of more value than any earthly desire could warrant.  The cross was emblematic of his choice, his burden to bear.

Those are just a couple, the cross means so many things to folk, not all of them christian in origin but the christian cross is very distinctive and layered with many meanings not just the obvious too.

In the end though it's still just a cross. A place where countless people lost their lives in prolonged agony. If you see the cross as more than that then that is fine, but I just see it as a means of death, so have always thought it strange to use it as a Christian symbol. The fish seems better as a symbol to me. Jesus wasn't beaten to death with a fish......

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#15    Abramelin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

View PostEuphorbia, on 04 September 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

The fish seems better as a symbol to me. Jesus wasn't beaten to death with a fish......

:w00t:

I see a Monty Python's scene.....






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