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Children of Light vs Children of Darkness


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#1    Ben Masada

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

CHILDREN OF LIGHT VS CHILDREN OF DARKNESS

According to Essene Theology, the controversy between good and evil is represented by the struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness since the beginning of the world. Therefore, in the "beginning," God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1)

Thousands of years later, since this message has been promoted by the Jewish Scriptures, Aristotle contested that truth by asserting that the universe was eternal; that is, it had never had a beginning. Scientists went along with the genious Philosopher and adopted his idea that the universe, indeed, had no beginning and that it was terefore eternal. That it had always been there.

Then, in the late 1920's the big theory was developed by Henri Lemaitre, a Belgian Catholic priest and astromer during his research on the expansion of the universe. The discovery was that the big ban was the reason for the origin of the universe. From then on, scientists in general, and cosmologists in particular had no choice but to accommodate the Biblical text, since the universe had indeed begun with the big bang. Regardless of how or who, the Biblical text had been correct for thousands of years, that the universe did have a beginning, that is.

"The heavens and the earth." The heavens in general, in Biblical terms, is known as the universe; while the earth in particular, is to be focused on the creation of man, which is, in fact, the theme for the Genesis account of creation.

"The earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters." (Gen. 1:2) The earth was in a state of complete disorder and confusion, which in the original in Hebrew is translated as Tohu vavohu. Therefore, in darkness covered the abyss, we can see the children of darkness on earth, according to Essene Theology. And in "myghty wind sweeping over the waters" we can think of the Intelligent Design on the move for a solution to the chaos.

Then, "God" said, "Let there be light, and there was light." (Gen. 1:3) And He saw how good was light. (Gen. 1:4) Behold, a solution had been provided to bring light to the world with the creation of the People of Israel. Isaiah thought it so, as he prophesied that Israel had been assigned as light to the Gentiles. (Isa. 42:6) And so did Jesus himself when he addressed to a crowd of Jews in the following words: "You are the light of the world." (Mat. 5:14)

But then, light had to be separated from darkness, as they could not coexist together. And again, according to the Essenes, the endless struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness started, to last until the Gentiles understood Jesus' words in John 4:22 that salvation comes from the Jews. "From the Jews," he said, and not from one among the Jews. Then, it was evening with the children of darkness and it was morning with the children of light. At least, salvation was guaranteed that night would return every after each day. And that was only the first day.

Ben


#2    The Gremlin

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

Im not sure that is an entirely faithful rendition of Aristotle's theory.......wasnt the Immovable Mover the source of all motion in the universe....ie. GOD???


So he was right too?

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#3    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 04 September 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Im not sure that is an entirely faithful rendition of Aristotle's theory.......wasnt the Immovable Mover the source of all motion in the universe....ie. GOD???


So he was right too?

I am sorry Gremilin, but I am not sure I understand what the Immovable Mover has anything to do with Aristotle's theory of the eternity of the universe. The Immovable Mover implies creation. Aristotle's theory rather rules out creation.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada, 06 September 2012 - 04:35 PM.


#4    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 06 September 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I am sorry Gremilin, but I am not sure I understand what the Immovable Mover has anything to do with Aristotle's theory of the eternity of the universe. The Immovable Mover implies creation. Aristotle's theory rather rules out creation.

Ben

perhaps you should check out his work on Metaphysics.
http://www.perseus.t...xt:1999.01.0052

Edited by The Gremlin, 06 September 2012 - 05:16 PM.

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#5    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 06 September 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

perhaps you should check out his work on Metaphysics.
http://www.perseus.t...xt:1999.01.0052

I do it once a week as I reread all my threads.
Ben


#6    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

you read Aristotle's Metaphysics about once a week?

's been a while for me.....I just read a bit now, and realise that it is the Unmoved Mover (generally called)....sorry for the misnomer.....been a long while.

I think one of us is mistaken about the nature of this Unmoved Mover....perhaps you can explain what you understand by this concept....should be easy for someone so familiar with it.

I may need my memory refreshing.

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#7    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 06 September 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

you read Aristotle's Metaphysics about once a week?

's been a while for me.....I just read a bit now, and realise that it is the Unmoved Mover (generally called)....sorry for the misnomer.....been a long while.

I think one of us is mistaken about the nature of this Unmoved Mover....perhaps you can explain what you understand by this concept....should be easy for someone so familiar with it.

I may need my memory refreshing.

Aristotle was not the only one to write Metaphysics. BTW, most my threads are written on the basis of Metaphysical concepts. Have you ever read Heguel and Maimonides? The Metaphysical theme is quite heavy in their writings, especially in "The Guide for the Perplexed" of Maimonides. Most writings in the Hebrew Scriptures are Metaphysical.

Ben


#8    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 06 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Aristotle was not the only one to write Metaphysics. BTW, most my threads are written on the basis of Metaphysical concepts. Have you ever read Heguel and Maimonides? The Metaphysical theme is quite heavy in their writings, especially in "The Guide for the Perplexed" of Maimonides. Most writings in the Hebrew Scriptures are Metaphysical.

Ben

Indeed.

So Aristotle's Unmoved Mover?

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#9    Ben Masada

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:20 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 06 September 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Indeed.

So Aristotle's Unmoved Mover?

IMHO, Aristotle was caught here in a contradiction. I am indeed aware of his concept of the Primal Mover, which contradicts his view of an eternal universe which never had a beginning. Primal Mover implies creation, as I have stated before; and an eternal universe denies creation.

Ben


#10    The Gremlin

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

could you go into more detail please, I know that many folk reading this will not be as familiar with the subject as you.

As our perception of our universe changes, does it also change our perception of his theory?

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#11    Ben Masada

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:23 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 06 September 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

could you go into more detail please, I know that many folk reading this will not be as familiar with the subject as you.

As our perception of our universe changes, does it also change our perception of his theory?

Most definitely, Gremilin. My answer to your question is a sound yes. We can almost say that theories are made to change as new researches bring new discoveries. IOW, our perception changes as new theories are created. The cosmologist Mitchio Kacko said only recently on a Nova TV show, that the theory of the the big bang could come to an end with new discoveries as a result of research.

Ben


#12    The Gremlin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:37 PM

but i doubt theyll find a genocidal Jehovah as the 'creative cause',

The Unmoved Mover however would fit in with an expanding and contracting universe though

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#13    Ben Masada

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 10 September 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

but i doubt theyll find a genocidal Jehovah as the 'creative cause',

The Unmoved Mover however would fit in with an expanding and contracting universe though

The "genocidal Jehovah" is only for the unlearned who have no idea of metaphorical language. I mean, those of the literal intepretation club.

Ben


#14    The Gremlin

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 11 September 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

The "genocidal Jehovah" is only for the unlearned who have no idea of metaphorical language. I mean, those of the literal intepretation club.

Ben

How many of the Laws are meant to be interpreted literally? and how many are discarded as culturally primitive?
Just how much of the Old Testement (sorry to use its Christian name) is 'metaphoric' ?
Is every instance of Jehovah's commands to kill every man, woman, child, dog in a city to be taken metaphorically?
Are the plagues of Egypt metaphoric then?

Are we to seperate this jelous and vengeful 'persona' that Jehovah is said to possess from the more esoteric and metaphysical entity?

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#15    Ben Masada

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostThe Gremlin, on 11 September 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

How many of the Laws are meant to be interpreted literally? and how many are discarded as culturally primitive?
Just how much of the Old Testement (sorry to use its Christian name) is 'metaphoric' ?
Is every instance of Jehovah's commands to kill every man, woman, child, dog in a city to be taken metaphorically?
Are the plagues of Egypt metaphoric then?

Are we to seperate this jelous and vengeful 'persona' that Jehovah is said to possess from the more esoteric and metaphysical entity?

That's okay to say OT. It is not a Christian reference. If a New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah soon after the return of the Jews from Babylon through Ezra, it is only obvious for the Old Covenant to be referenced to as the OT. (Jer. 31:31)

All laws that imply anthropomorphism in God are supposed to be interpreted metaphorically as to point to man and not to God. Only the historical part of the OT can be taken literally. All the poetic and prophetic books are by definition metaphorical.

Right, all so called Divine commands to kill in wars either of agression or defense are to be taken metaphorically. God would not create and destroy His creation. It was common and natural for groups of peoples at that period of History to look for a place to settle down and they would kill all in order to prevent insurrection later on. Of course, being religious, they would attribute their conquests to their own gods. The Hebrews were only one of those peoples. It was called the time of migration of nomads in search of a place to quit their lives of wandering aimlessly.

God is not jealous nor vengeful. That's human transference of their own feelings to acquire Divine legality to their actions.

About the Egyptian plagues, research has been on the making to explain them as natural events. To anything that needs faith to be believed, time is the only thing we have to count with for verification.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada, 15 September 2012 - 09:11 PM.





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