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Pagan Practices 101


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#76    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

View Postcamochick, on 08 September 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:




I saw "..from the tax man?" and that just made my day! No, more like from demons. I have an open aura and I'm an empath and I just attract a lot of negative energy. I've seen shadows since I was four. The spells are mainly from a demon I started getting visits from about 5 years ago. He's very physically, sexually and mentally violent towards me. He told me that in a past life I killed him and he won't stop until I'm dead.
Hi... I adressed a little bit of this in that other thread. You need to turn the tables on this. I can show you how. What exactly is happening with the violence?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#77    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

View Postkarmakazi, on 08 September 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:



Shamanism varies by the regions in which it arose, are you thinking of a specific type? Usually I tend to think of Native Americans when I hear it, but there are practices all over the world that are also considered shamanism.  It's usually very tribal, of course :)

Shamans interact with the spirit world, and can guide their people based on what they learn from the spirits.   They are also supposed to be able to heal a persons illnesses by mending their soul.
Yes this is all correct. Most guide people to interact with the spirit world and through it to have a personal experience with their problem. This is known as shamanic counceling. It comes in diverse forms. Dealing with something on an experiential level is a very powerful tool.

My approach has always been to help guide people through the shamanic journey while addressing their other issues along the way. In rare cases for those that my Wiccan friends send to me, a vision quest may be in order. Soul loss is a devistating thing. But my ancestors have been dealing with the root of it for many thousands of years, and not just the symptoms.


Edited by Seeker79, 08 September 2012 - 12:48 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#78    karmakazi

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:32 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 08 September 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

How do they do it different to other shamans? I do think of them too :)
How do they interact with that world? Oh I have so many questions!

Trances mostly, though it probably compares to astral projection.  I think I have also heard of something like "dreamwalking" ?  Asleep but visiting the spirit world in dreams, from my understanding :)    Premonitions, visions, things like that as well.  It's mostly altered consciousness and if I recall correctly, mescaline and peyote played a part in those altered states.

The ritual and practice of the different cultures varies, but the general idea of what they do for their tribe is the same.  They're considered to be partially in this world and partially in the spirit world, wise and even if they aren't the actual leader of the tribe they are usually a trusted advisor.  I've read a lot about Native American culture and tribes which is where I"m recalling this from, I don't know as much about other cultures, I may have to read up on that myself.

I'm probably not the best source of information, but that's what I've got :D

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#79    ZaraKitty

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:56 PM

View Postkarmakazi, on 08 September 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Trances mostly, though it probably compares to astral projection.  I think I have also heard of something like "dreamwalking" ?  Asleep but visiting the spirit world in dreams, from my understanding :) Premonitions, visions, things like that as well.  It's mostly altered consciousness and if I recall correctly, mescaline and peyote played a part in those altered states.

The ritual and practice of the different cultures varies, but the general idea of what they do for their tribe is the same.  They're considered to be partially in this world and partially in the spirit world, wise and even if they aren't the actual leader of the tribe they are usually a trusted advisor.  I've read a lot about Native American culture and tribes which is where I"m recalling this from, I don't know as much about other cultures, I may have to read up on that myself.

I'm probably not the best source of information, but that's what I've got :D

Thank you for sharing that with me! It's all so interesting, I love it!

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#80    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:08 PM

View Postkarmakazi, on 08 September 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:



Trances mostly, though it probably compares to astral projection.  I think I have also heard of something like "dreamwalking" ?  Asleep but visiting the spirit world in dreams, from my understanding :)    Premonitions, visions, things like that as well.  It's mostly altered consciousness and if I recall correctly, mescaline and peyote played a part in those altered states.

The ritual and practice of the different cultures varies, but the general idea of what they do for their tribe is the same.  They're considered to be partially in this world and partially in the spirit world, wise and even if they aren't the actual leader of the tribe they are usually a trusted advisor.  I've read a lot about Native American culture and tribes which is where I"m recalling this from, I don't know as much about other cultures, I may have to read up on that myself.

I'm probably not the best source of information, but that's what I've got :D
You did us proud karma :D

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#81    GreenmansGod

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 08 September 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Yes this is all correct. Most guide people to interact with the spirit world and through it to have a personal experience with their problem. This is known as shamanic counceling. It comes in diverse forms. Dealing with something on an experiential level is a very powerful tool.

My approach has always been to help guide people through the shamanic journey while addressing their other issues along the way. In rare cases for those that my Wiccan friends send to me, a vision quest may be in order. Soul loss is a devistating thing. But my ancestors have been dealing with the root of it for many thousands of years, and not just the symptoms.

I wish I could find a good Shaman, I have had natural trial by ordeal from my MS. Pain like that really changes you. I have aways been empathic, but that ramped it up to the point of being difficult deal with sometimes. So I end up blocking things I probably shouldn't. I know when you block things coming in, you end up blocking what should go out.  I used to be a lot more open, but of late I have just closed up. People come to me for spiritual help and I just back away. I can't deal with their energy.  All I really want to do anymore is sit in the woods alone. It is the only place I find peace anymore. I'll be glad when the cools down, that is just what I am going to do.

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#82    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 08 September 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

How does one become a shaman in the modern world?

These are the modern paths, from every corner of the globe but here are a few. Also the terms are very specific, so while sorcery might have a general meaning in someone's mind, it has a more specific meaning as in the case of Nagualism as described in the books of Carlos Castaneda. There a sorceror can move his assemblage point, which is somewhere in the neck by the spine, and change their appearance down to age and wardrobe, at least others would see it that way. That is just one example. The books describes other feats of magic but they are not achieved using spellwork but your own body. Sorcery will come to a person once like a bird and the person must get on to follow the path, leave all they know behind them, break contact with everyone and everyplace they know, and follow the path. That is how it is described in the books.

Curanderismo, which is about healing, sometimes faith healing, sometimes using herbs to cure supernatural illnesses, to put it in an easy to understand way, or even use massages to release negative energy. This tradition has to be learned from someone. Sometimes there are powerful curanderos/as which act like priest/ess.. Other times the belief system is present among commoners so small spells are used by a mother perhaps when a baby has the evil eye. A small egg will be rubbed over the body, put in a dish under the bed, and in the morning cracked. If it has a dark spot the baby had the evil eye and it removed it. The evil eye in this tradition is when someone looks at something with envy or even innocent desire or affection. The evil eye in other traditions means something else altogether. These are just small examples

Brujeria is usually thought of as evil magick but it ranges from revenge spells to cause misfortune, illness, or even death. Or just to influence a decision on the other end of the spectrum. Most people go to specialized brujos/brujas to have spells done for them and it costs money. But it is believed that they can shapeshit where the shamanic influence comes in. They can turn into large evil birds called lechuzas, or into turkeys, and other animals. Brujeria and Curanderismo are from Mexico and the Southwestern United States so they operate in the framework of Catholicism and it is faithful Catholics who use both of these traditions.

Hedgewitches are sometimes aid to be able to cross the hedge so shamanism is present in that path although I do not know much about it.

South America has medicine men who use plant substances to go into other worlds but the priests with experience can do so without substances.

Astral projection, remote viewing, and lucid dreaming techniques are also a strain of shamanism so it is not like you need someone versed in an ethnic tradition to begin the path of a shaman. Although there are far too many who practice a bit of shamanism or magic in general and pretend they are priests when they are just practitoners.

Edited by Chasingtherabbit, 08 September 2012 - 03:39 PM.


#83    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 08 September 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:



I wish I could find a good Shaman, I have had natural trial by ordeal from my MS. Pain like that really changes you. I have aways been empathic, but that ramped it up to the point of being difficult deal with sometimes. So I end up blocking things I probably shouldn't. I know when you block things coming in, you end up blocking what should go out.  I used to be a lot more open, but of late I have just closed up. People come to me for spiritual help and I just back away. I can't deal with their energy.  All I really want to do anymore is sit in the woods alone. It is the only place I find peace anymore. I'll be glad when the cools down, that is just what I am going to do.
Internal conflicts will surface reguardless. I'm the same as you. Let negattivity pass through you like a conduit. no good to close it off. If you have a call similar to a shaman, it's insanity not to answer.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#84    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:20 PM

View Postnotoverrated, on 08 September 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

oh and that guy (in the video) was saying some names who are they?
Which names do you mean ?
I will watch it again later.Where in the vid,what is he doing when he says them .


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#85    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 08 September 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:



I wish I could find a good Shaman, I have had natural trial by ordeal from my MS. Pain like that really changes you. I have aways been empathic, but that ramped it up to the point of being difficult deal with sometimes. So I end up blocking things I probably shouldn't. I know when you block things coming in, you end up blocking what should go out.  I used to be a lot more open, but of late I have just closed up. People come to me for spiritual help and I just back away. I can't deal with their energy.  All I really want to do anymore is sit in the woods alone. It is the only place I find peace anymore. I'll be glad when the cools down, that is just what I am going to do.
I know a good shaman,but he's in nyc .
You should be going for acupuncture and craniosacral therapy . It helps with MS.

Have you tried bee therapy ?,
Some people swear by it,others have no results. I think the key to it working ,is being stung in the right acupuncture point ,which is also why I think. cortisone injections sometimes do work,and sometimes don't work .

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#86    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:40 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 08 September 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:



Thank you for sharing that with me! It's all so interesting, I love it!
When you look at it historically ,the old medicine woman of the tribe,was basically a healer,and use probably used all sorts of herbs to do her work .These women would be branded as witches ,for just helping others.

In Asia ,the holy men were also the healers.
In China,they were the Taoist monks .It was said they could see the acupuncture meridians on our bodies,glowing in gold .
So they were priests,healers,and they did kick ass kung fu ! It was usually men doing this in China ,but women did it too .
Conversely ,in Japan ,the men who did this ,and only men ,were called Onmiyodo .

They had some monk duties,but they knew herbs ,pressure points and acupuncture ,astronomy,astrology ,and magick .
They usually worked for the Shogun or the emperor ,if they had renoun reputations .
They were not usually martial artists,as the chinese monks were,but that didnt mean some knew some form of budo.
The onmiyodo did the exorcisms and such.
The most famous onmiyoji was Abe No Seimei . He could see and speak to demons and yokai .
There are many funny stories about him.

He used to summon up demons to do his bidding,and he kept them near his house ,and in his house. This,after a time,began to piss off his wife,and she made him move them all out.
He put them under a famous bridge near by
They are said to still guard it .He is one of my personal hero's .I made a pilgrimage to Kyoto ,to see all of this ,and his shrine.


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#87    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 08 September 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

How does one become a shaman in the modern world?
Hi Zara,

I think a person can achieve a measure of understanding and success through study. These people usually call themselves shamanic practitioners,

But the real thing is usually not a choice. A shaman or elders can identify Somone sometimes at an early age, but usually iit starts as a bombardment. It's called a shamanic awakening and can be a very difficult and trying time. These days Somone without the back up of culture usually thinks they are going mad and try to suppress it with medication. But those that embrace it end up walking in both worlds. I think shaman are chosen by the spirits based on choices they make.  Shaman use things like sweat lodges, trial by pain, entheogens etc. as tools... Usually for other people, but they have the ability to walk with spirits without those things.

In short I think there are people that are born to be shaman, I think many find there way there through cascading choices that induce the awakening, some choose to be, but I think there is a lack of guidance out there for pepple to get the right info to transform themselves.

Oh... I don't think "shaman" is a title. It cannot be given to you like priest or priestess. It's just something you become. It dosnt have to be in an ancient context either. Modern shaman exist but have managed to work there way through it without guides in the physical world. The spirits are the true teachers. Shamanism csnnot really be taught.

Edited by Seeker79, 08 September 2012 - 04:51 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#88    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:43 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 08 September 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Part of it may also be guilt ?,catholic guilt ,Jewish guilt ,they are the worst ,so they keep part of their faith ,to keep from feeling as if they are betraying their devout Irish mum .

I cannot speak for all Christian witches.

A Christian witch, that is just who I am, have always been one even before the label which is not as important as the path itself. I just considered myself a Christian who was attracted to magic, mainly low magic and mental techniques. I know an older faithful Catholic lady who used to do the egg thing to cure the evil eye, who still massages people to get rid of negative energy, who knows about a scant few herbs, who whistles to bring the wind on hot days, and sings to the moon to watch over her newborn grandsons.

She stopped using the egg because she felt it was too much magic but she doesn't realize what she still does is all part of her path of a CathoWitch. No label is really needed.

For myself, I used to feel guilt, but that is only because Western Christianity in general, but not in all cases, but in general it assumes a dominant narrative of a dichotomy between Christianity and witchcraft. Not all Christians throughout history have felt like this so comparing our culture to that of others I can see other narratives exist, even within our own culture, and my own narrative sees that dichotomy as a false one. The borders are breaking not just in this domain but also between black and white, rich and poor, male and females, to name a few examples. There is no one right way to be black, white, rich, poor, male, female, Christian, or witch.

Here are a couple of examples I have come across that reveal this false dichotomy did not always exist.

The stone of Niederdollendorf: Christ in glory or Woden?

Quote

The average Frank probably lived in a mental world in which that image could represent either of those ideas, or both. The missionary and the historian who reads the missionary writings tend to assume that Christian and pagan are two diametrically opposed systems of belief.

Any tinge of something which does not look like what the twentieth century regards as Christian will be denounced as 'paganism'. Yet Christianity in the fifth- or sixth-century Roman Empire had resonances that were very different from modern Christianity.

Most Franks probably accepted Christianity initially as a welcome addition to the already complex mythology and ritual of their ancestors; they would naturally adapt their iconography to suit the new cult, and interpret Mediterranean Christian iconography in their own way.

—The Franks by Edward James pg 144-45

Edwin + Æthelburh

Quote

Some of the Saxons saw Christ as yet another god that could give them victory on the battlefield and so some of the conversions of Saxon kings had to do with their allegiance to Christ at particular military "crises" and Christian conversions.

—Chris Snyder, Marymount University
Military Channel, Barbarians II: Saxons

So why would I let any group tell me what to believe? A single denomination that I grew up in? Listen to Christians in general in Modern America when Christians existed before throughout the ages who for me are better examples in deciding my own path? Why listen to Pagans who choose to think just like those Christians on this issue?

For those who still do not understand the postmodern approach and will ask well what about "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live"? Well open up a Bible go to Exodus 22, where one instance of that appears, and read all the other rules next to that. If a man steals an ox he should return five oxes, if a man sleeps with a maid (virgin) he has to marry her, and all the other laws meant for a tribe that existed in one moment of history. Not even Christians follow all those rules, they were written for Jews of that era, so why would I let that dictate my own narrative? Why would I let ignorant Christians who do not even understand this, or Pagans who agree with them, tell me what to do and choose?

Oh but what about Revelation 9 where sorcerers won't go into heaven some will still say? They will keep asking because in their mind the dichotomy is strong, true, and all that exists. Look up the original Greek word used which is pharmakeia aka pharmaceutical more or less. That means poison so according to that poisoners will not go to heaven. This is another example of specific terms that we understand in a general way but failing to understand the specific context it actually is in.

In the end the choice for me was one of the individual vs the collective. Which do I put importance in? What I believe and am attracted to in my heart of hearts or what the collective agree is right? In many instances of witch persecutions it is always this theme, the individual vs the collective.

Edited by Chasingtherabbit, 08 September 2012 - 04:54 PM.


#89    Avatar Samantha Ai

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

There is another difference, between those who allow others to be, blossom and flourish, and those who want to control you with their bs rules and ideas they want all to go by?

Some play within the borders, as a postmodern witch I play with the very borders themselves.

When some see this path they think the worst of both but I see and take the best of both.


#90    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:55 PM

View PostArbitran, on 08 September 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:



Ah, I see. I think I understand. So binding is potentially comparable to the Shinto/Taoist concept of sealing, no?

No,its not quite the same.

Our binding,is binding something TO something else. Be it a person place or thing,but its usually a person .
Women stupidly do binding magick on men they want,and end up with a nutty stalker .

In Asia,binding is more like the concept of making something ,usually an evil something,incapable of wreaking havoc.
So its sealed to make it unable to do what it usually does . Think more of the movies where some evil thing,is put in a coffin,with special chains and spells on it,then buried ,and covered in lead ,and then concrete .
That's sealing .
In Japan,evil yokai would be sealed by monks ,into a place,where they couldn't move out of that place .
Like that . There are the little white slips with kanji prayers on them,that they put on the foreheads of creatures they want to keep in limbo.
Ghosts demons vampires. They sealed them all the time.

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 08 September 2012 - 04:57 PM.

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