127 replies to this topic

[Rlyeh]

White Unicorn, on 26 September 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

It's kind of like the materialists are saying only the "solid" ice exists. They finally figured out they get water from the ice but don't really comprehend all the forms of matter.  They just wonder where the "liquid" came from or where the "solid" went!  Then they don't even want to consider what others believe about the vapor because they never linked it yet within their theories!

How do you arrive at such an asinine analogy?

[White Unicorn]

Seeker79, on 26 September 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

I think you would be very interested in this book.
http://www.amazon.co...aw/d/0770436706

Your right thanks

[White Unicorn]

Rlyeh, on 26 September 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

How do you arrive at such an asinine analogy?

From agreeing with your comment, I guess.

Like Professor T  quoted a  Sherlock Holmes.. "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how mad it might seem, must be the truth." That is what science is doing now in Cern with trying to figure out what matter is made of. lol, we don't even now what physical actually is yet!

Science is all about our interpretation of observed effects, but sometimes it tends to ignor an answer because it is considered outside their prevailing theory that they are trying to build on.  Science will lead to a unifying theory but it could get there faster if all scientists take into account some of the stranger results that just don't seem to fit into their current theory. The greatest scientists are the ones who even expand on the results that don't quite fit into their current models and they attempt to reconcile the conflicting results of their discoveries.

[Rlyeh]

White Unicorn, on 26 September 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

From agreeing with your comment, I guess.

What did my comment have to do with your misconception of materialists?

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Like Professor T  quoted a  Sherlock Holmes.. "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how mad it might seem, must be the truth." That is what science is doing now in Cern with trying to figure out what matter is made of. lol, we don't even now what physical actually is yet!

Science is all about our interpretation of observed effects, but sometimes it tends to ignor an answer because it is considered outside their prevailing theory that they are trying to build on.  Science will lead to a unifying theory but it could get there faster if all scientists take into account some of the stranger results that just don't seem to fit into their current theory. The greatest scientists are the ones who even expand on the results that don't quite fit into their current models and they attempt to reconcile the conflicting results of their discoveries.

If one thing is for sure, an answer isn't going to be found in fallacious analogies

[White Unicorn]

Rlyeh, on 26 September 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

What did my comment have to do with your misconception of materialists?

If one thing is for sure, an answer isn't going to be found in fallacious analogies

We don't even know what most of the universe is made out of, that "material" turns out to be mostly open space and waves. Materialism died a long time ago.  I agreed.

Analogy shows how a simple truth can be overlooked in the beginning of study because of a non open mind who is dedicated to trying to prove his own theory and ignor someone else's concepts  simply because he doesn't comprehend the relativity of it to his work.  

It depends on how you define materialism since even it can mean different things to different people.   Analogy in itself  is an attempt to let  others know the concept  behind words that could be taken out of context or misunderstood. .

Edited by White Unicorn, 26 September 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[White Unicorn]

Emma_Acid, on 25 September 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

his is really getting tenuous. The claim is that science is discovering proof of things that I'd call "paranormal rubbish". I then ask for examples of this proof.

Example wasn't Newton a scientist who studied a lot of rubbish but found some truth by studying some old concepts?
http://www.guardian....entist-sorcerer

[Beany]

Here's an analogy that may work. I have a friend who when she walks she & the people with her can hear a clicking sound coming from her body, and she's been in a lot of pain. The doc she saw examined her, and said there was nothing wrong with her. What he should have said was, I can't find anything wrong. So should my friend ignore this painful medical condition because science, as represented by the doc, can't find a cause? Is the problem with science or a particular scientist and his knowledge or lack of? With all the millions of people in the world, each with their own unique physical, mental, and experiential attributes, is it possible that some of these individuals can have genuine experiences with the "supernatural" that can't currently be explained by science? Anomalies, so to speak that don't fall within the range of what's known to science? On an individual level, am I to discount my personal experiences as fantasy or delusion because there's currently no known explanation? And I use the term supernatural cautiously and reluctantly, as it seems to cover a spectrum so broad as to seem almost useless.

[Rlyeh]

Beany, on 28 September 2012 - 01:39 PM, said:

Here's an analogy that may work. I have a friend who when she walks she & the people with her can hear a clicking sound coming from her body, and she's been in a lot of pain. The doc she saw examined her, and said there was nothing wrong with her. What he should have said was, I can't find anything wrong. So should my friend ignore this painful medical condition because science, as represented by the doc, can't find a cause? Is the problem with science or a particular scientist and his knowledge or lack of?

A medical doctor isn't a scientist.
http://www.bmj.com/c...nt/328/7454/0.9

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With all the millions of people in the world, each with their own unique physical, mental, and experiential attributes, is it possible that some of these individuals can have genuine experiences with the "supernatural" that can't currently be explained by science?

And what method are you using to tell if it is "supernatural" or not?

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Anomalies, so to speak that don't fall within the range of what's known to science?

When an explanation is given, even verified as quite likely, some still prefer superstition.

Quote

On an individual level, am I to discount my personal experiences as fantasy or delusion because there's currently no known explanation? And I use the term supernatural cautiously and reluctantly, as it seems to cover a spectrum so broad as to seem almost useless.

I don't think science or the scientific community is overly concerned what you do.