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Connecting the stages of sleep to AP


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#1    human_eraser

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:44 AM

So I've been doing some thinking on this, and I guess you can say I've come up with a theory/hypothesis. I've made some connections, I don't know if this is well known or not, but I'll share anyway. I know it's not good to put faith in just a theory, but these connections are logical.

Reviewing the basics:
To begin, sleep is divided into 5 stages, and these stages are categorized by brain waves. they consist of:

N1
N2
N3
(Some sources have N3 split into N3 and N4, but they are both slow-wave sleep)
REM

The first four represent non-rapid eye movement sleep where we don't dream. Rapid eye movement (REM) is when we dream.

N1
N1 occurs mostly in the beginning of sleep, with slow eye movement. Alpha waves disappear and the theta waves appear. People aroused from this stage often believe that they have been fully awake. When you awake in this stage, you think to yourself "Was I asleep at all? Crap, I need to bed, it's getting late! :P" This has happened to me a lot. The important thing here is that hypnic jerks almost exclusively happen during this stage. This is where it gets interesting. A hypnic jerk is where we suddenly spasm all over the place and gain awareness quickly. We also feel a falling sensation. What is my take on this? During N1, the astral body begins to separate from the body, and it hovers just above the body itself. A hypnic jerk occurs when there is a problem with astral body-physical body communication. The brain sends a signal and the astral body quickly "falls" back into the body, We gain consciousness during the middle of this phenomena. The "jerk" itself is an involuntary signal to muscles to wake up, because the muscles are in NREM relaxation mode (not paralysis).

N2
This is a period of light sleep during which PSG readings show intermittent peaks and valleys, or positive and negative waves. These waves indicate spontaneous periods of muscle tone mixed with periods of muscle relaxation. The heart rate slows and the body temperature decreases. At this point, the body prepares to enter deep sleep. The astral body continues to float away from the body, slowly. Instead of floating right next to the body, it would be a little farther, but still in the same room. The astral body is in a transition to completely separate from

N3-N4 (Slow-wave sleep)
These are deep sleep stages, with stage 4 being more intense than Stage 3. These stages are known as slow-wave, or delta, sleep. If aroused from sleep during these stages, a person may feel disoriented for a few minutes. During the deep stages of NREM sleep, the body repairs and regenerates tissues, builds bone and muscle, and strengthens the immune system. As you get older, you sleep more lightly and get less deep sleep. The important thing is that sleepwalking occurs during slow-wave sleep.

Here is the fascinating connection: I remember Seeker saying that he has seen unconscious astral bodies doing everyday things (like going to the bathroom or making "food") while out-of-body. There are generally two types of sleepwalking episodes. One type is usually calm, with the sleepwalker walking around unconsciously doing random everyday things. The other type is when the sleepwalker is much more agitated, and it seems like they are trying to "escape." They may even tell you they are trying to escape if you ask them.

I've had one sleepwalking episode in my life. I don't remember it, my parents told it to me. Basically, they saw from the hallway that my room light kept turning on and off. So they went over to see what was going on, and it was me that kept turning the light on and off. They obviously knew I was sleepwalking, so they told me to get back into bed and I did. I find this interesting, since checking to see if the electricity works is a major indicator if you're dreaming/OBEing or not.

Anyway, this brings me to my third conclusion. During slow-wave sleep, the astral body is still unconscious, but there's enough "life" in it that it will not float anymore It will actually do things that it the physical body would do during the day. Sleepwalking occurs when there is a astral body-physical body communication problem. Either the consciousness doesn't know it is sleepwalking, as in type 1, or the consciousness knows, and it is trying to "escape" from the physical body. I have to add that I believe these communication problems are purely the brain's/physical body's fault, due to elevated stress hormones or other problems etc. For my sleepwalking episode, maybe that technique is more universal than we thought. :P

Sadly, this is where my theory ends. I could go on to explain REM, but it would be an uneducated theory. I know a lot of people have different opinions on dreams, whether a dream is actually our astral body's experiences "filtering" into our physical memory (if the astral body was conscious by some higher self) or if the dream is just a concoction by the brain. There is a gray area between dreams, lucid dreams, and astral projection. Just for one more (rhetorical) question to conclude: If we can have a lucid dream that is  "out-of-body"', can we astral project without ever "leaving" our body?


#2    John from Lowell

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

In my view, AP is an out-of-body experience without leaving the body.

If I may suggest a few distinctions when we talk about this subject. The brain is our physical experience processing unit and memory index(through focus). The mind is our vast spiritual awareness which transends our physical expression. The more we can work with our right brain abilities(intuition & imagination), the more we can connect to our mind.

I suspect that we do these things easily when we sleep. Our dreams are not restricted by our logical thought processes. I like to become conscious of my dreams(lucid) but not to the extent where I direct the free flow expression that the dream itself wishes to express.

I hope that my thoughts on this subject will be useful.

John

What We Are Never Changes !!

Who We Are Is Always Changing !!!

#3    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:42 AM

View Posthuman_eraser, on 12 September 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

So I've been doing some thinking on this, and I guess you can say I've come up with a theory/hypothesis. I've made some connections, I don't know if this is well known or not, but I'll share anyway. I know it's not good to put faith in just a theory, but these connections are logical.

Reviewing the basics:
To begin, sleep is divided into 5 stages, and these stages are categorized by brain waves. they consist of:

N1
N2
N3
(Some sources have N3 split into N3 and N4, but they are both slow-wave sleep)
REM

The first four represent non-rapid eye movement sleep where we don't dream. Rapid eye movement (REM) is when we dream.

N1
N1 occurs mostly in the beginning of sleep, with slow eye movement. Alpha waves disappear and the theta waves appear. People aroused from this stage often believe that they have been fully awake. When you awake in this stage, you think to yourself "Was I asleep at all? Crap, I need to bed, it's getting late! :P" This has happened to me a lot. The important thing here is that hypnic jerks almost exclusively happen during this stage. This is where it gets interesting. A hypnic jerk is where we suddenly spasm all over the place and gain awareness quickly. We also feel a falling sensation. What is my take on this? During N1, the astral body begins to separate from the body, and it hovers just above the body itself. A hypnic jerk occurs when there is a problem with astral body-physical body communication. The brain sends a signal and the astral body quickly "falls" back into the body, We gain consciousness during the middle of this phenomena. The "jerk" itself is an involuntary signal to muscles to wake up, because the muscles are in NREM relaxation mode (not paralysis).

N2
This is a period of light sleep during which PSG readings show intermittent peaks and valleys, or positive and negative waves. These waves indicate spontaneous periods of muscle tone mixed with periods of muscle relaxation. The heart rate slows and the body temperature decreases. At this point, the body prepares to enter deep sleep. The astral body continues to float away from the body, slowly. Instead of floating right next to the body, it would be a little farther, but still in the same room. The astral body is in a transition to completely separate from

N3-N4 (Slow-wave sleep)
These are deep sleep stages, with stage 4 being more intense than Stage 3. These stages are known as slow-wave, or delta, sleep. If aroused from sleep during these stages, a person may feel disoriented for a few minutes. During the deep stages of NREM sleep, the body repairs and regenerates tissues, builds bone and muscle, and strengthens the immune system. As you get older, you sleep more lightly and get less deep sleep. The important thing is that sleepwalking occurs during slow-wave sleep.

Here is the fascinating connection: I remember Seeker saying that he has seen unconscious astral bodies doing everyday things (like going to the bathroom or making "food") while out-of-body. There are generally two types of sleepwalking episodes. One type is usually calm, with the sleepwalker walking around unconsciously doing random everyday things. The other type is when the sleepwalker is much more agitated, and it seems like they are trying to "escape." They may even tell you they are trying to escape if you ask them.

I've had one sleepwalking episode in my life. I don't remember it, my parents told it to me. Basically, they saw from the hallway that my room light kept turning on and off. So they went over to see what was going on, and it was me that kept turning the light on and off. They obviously knew I was sleepwalking, so they told me to get back into bed and I did. I find this interesting, since checking to see if the electricity works is a major indicator if you're dreaming/OBEing or not.

Anyway, this brings me to my third conclusion. During slow-wave sleep, the astral body is still unconscious, but there's enough "life" in it that it will not float anymore It will actually do things that it the physical body would do during the day. Sleepwalking occurs when there is a astral body-physical body communication problem. Either the consciousness doesn't know it is sleepwalking, as in type 1, or the consciousness knows, and it is trying to "escape" from the physical body. I have to add that I believe these communication problems are purely the brain's/physical body's fault, due to elevated stress hormones or other problems etc. For my sleepwalking episode, maybe that technique is more universal than we thought. :P

Sadly, this is where my theory ends. I could go on to explain REM, but it would be an uneducated theory. I know a lot of people have different opinions on dreams, whether a dream is actually our astral body's experiences "filtering" into our physical memory (if the astral body was conscious by some higher self) or if the dream is just a concoction by the brain. There is a gray area between dreams, lucid dreams, and astral projection. Just for one more (rhetorical) question to conclude: If we can have a lucid dream that is  "out-of-body"', can we astral project without ever "leaving" our body?
Nice analysis... I'm sorry I missed this when you started it.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#4    stevemagegod

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:24 AM

Very Interesting Read. I have recently come up with the Conclusion that Astral Projection is nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. I believe once you gain control over your Dreams you can Astral Project/Remote View. However i have had strange Electric Shocks from my Head all the way down to my Spine when i am still conscious/ yet about to fall asleep. These Electric Shocks are very Powerful and they actually move my Body and my Leg falls asleep to sometimes(weird side affect). Some people on this forum have told me that this is the Vibration Stage of Astral Projection. However i still think learning to control or gain conscious in your dreams is the key to having a Successful Out of Body Experience.


#5    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

View Poststevemagegod, on 13 January 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Very Interesting Read. I have recently come up with the Conclusion that Astral Projection is nothing more than Lucid Dreaming. I believe once you gain control over your Dreams you can Astral Project/Remote View. However i have had strange Electric Shocks from my Head all the way down to my Spine when i am still conscious/ yet about to fall asleep. These Electric Shocks are very Powerful and they actually move my Body and my Leg falls asleep to sometimes(weird side affect). Some people on this forum have told me that this is the Vibration Stage of Astral Projection. However i still think learning to control or gain conscious in your dreams is the key to having a Successful Out of Body Experience.
What does "nothing more " constitue though? In dreams we construct environments that are internally generated, in waking we construct environments that are entirely internally generated but hopefully based on stimuli. To say something is a dream we have to decide what we mean by dreaming. Is any imagery while we are altered going to be called dreaming even if it's not scenario specific? Then are we going to say something is "only a dream". I find that powerful visions in dreamstates are downgraded by skeptics simply because strange things happen in dreams. For me dreaming, lucid dreaming, and the journey are entirely different experiences. The difference between watching a movie, acting in the movie, and then  living a scenario respectively. Each state has its own quality. We might aswell define waking as lucid external stimulus dreaming. Then when something powerful in life happens to you, Somone can say oh well you were only lucid external stimulus dreaming, so it dosnt have any meaning.

Edited by Seeker79, 13 January 2013 - 04:29 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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