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The Girl Scout Camp Murders

girl scout murder oklahoma

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#241    MATTHEWAK47

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostTaun, on 22 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I browsed through the book (Someone Cry For the Children) and it dealt a lot more with the evidence than TN8 did... TN8 was more a character study of the trial - and how the author felt that Hart was railroaded by the FBI and OSBI... SCFTC was pretty much the opposite.. showing how Hart received a prejudiced jury (prejudiced in favor not against), and how the trial was covered by a sympathetic - highly sensationalistic press...

After reading TN8 I felt that hart was probably involved in crimes in the area at the same time - but if directly involved int he murders was not alone... After SCFTC I felt that, it was very possible that hart did it by himself...

Honestly I don't know.. My gut feeling right now is that the murders were committed by a Native American... While the defenses specialists claimed the hair found on the girls was not an exact match of Hart's... They never addressed that it was very similar... Also, the defense made a case of Hart's vasectomy and that he could not have left sperm in or on the girls... Yet at Harts autopsy it was revealed that his vasectomy had failed (rather common back then actually)...

As for the wedding photo's being planted by the Sheriff..There was documentation on file that showed Hart had signed for possession of the photo's prior to the murders (I don't remember exactly when)... And it still makes no sense to me that the Sheriff would hold onto a very innocuous random photo by an already captured convict, just to plant on him later - in case.... Makes no sense...

Hart was known to either have a fetish for women's glasses - or was unable to buy his own and so stole glasses of similar prescriptions whenever he could find them... (seeing as how the camp was only 2 miles from the cave where he was apparently hanging out - it makes sense that he would take women's glasses)....

Hart was a Cherokee of the 'old school' meaning the rituals and beliefs were real to him - at the cave they found the remains of ceremonial fires set up in the tribal way, and used cigarettes with the filters broken off - this was/is very common among Cherokee's when ever they are performing their 'magic' or cleansing themselves... They always break off the filters... Also found in the cave of course were the glasses that had been stolen on the night of the murders as well as the wedding photo...  So in my mind it is pretty clear that Hart was there int he Girl Scout Camp that night and - at the very least- committed robbery...

The fact that there was (apparently) only one flashlight used by the murderer(s) on that very dark night, indicates to me that there was probably only one perp... Granted they could have taken other lights away - but only one light was reported being seen...  The flashlight in Lori Farmers sleeping bag was hers - the book makes no special claims about it being used in a bad way upon the child - so I think the second light is a 'red herring'...

If Hart acted alone - here is how I see it happening...
After the main rain storm passed, he began making his way into the camp grounds probably making entry in the general vicinity of camp Cherokee or Comanche -as a dim moving light was spotted in those areas... It was dark and in the woods which meant visibility was next to nothing, it was either still raining slightly or had just finished - so the ground was slippery and tracks would be easy to leave... By these factors Hart would have to be moving relatively slowly... factors in his favor would be everyone was inside, the water dripping from the leaves would help to mask any noise and he was very familiar with the grounds, plus his many years of hunting skills would help him to move relatively silently...

Sometime after midnight, He arrives at Camp Kiowa... He approached tent #6 (?) lifted a flap and shined his light inside - which seems rather risky for him actually... For whatever reason he left the tent and went to #7 (8)...
Upon entering, Lori's cot was nearest the door, he gives her a single strike to the head - killing her instantly, moving to Michelle's cot (no more than a step or two away) he also strikes her either killing her or so severely hurting her she is effectively in a coma (evidence points to the first two dying in the tent)... Then he gets to Denise... Perhaps she was partially awake, perhaps he wanted to kill her later, he subdues her, binds her with the duct tape, then begins trying to clean up the crime scene... Perhaps he was thinking that if he smeared the blood around, he could erase any footprints he might have left (remember he was a hunter and he would have wanted to destroy his tracks)...

Since the girls were already in their sleeping bags, it would have been a bit easier for him to carry them out, like sacks of grain...Taking them back the way he came in to get to the gate that led to his cave... Perhaps Denise began to fight him as much as she could, so he stops near the gate and rather than take them back to his cave finishes his vile acts there... The camp counselor coming down the path for her early morning shower interrupts him and causes him to flee leaving his flashlight, tape and rope behind... So there was (in this theory) no special significance to the spot the girls were found in except that it was here they became too much of a burden or bother to him...

That is another reason I'm leaning toward a single perp... If the perp(s) were interrupted as I theorize above, two or three men running away would have been highly noticeable... 1 man could slip away much easier...
From what I can gather from the book the girls were bound in a similar fashion to the two women that Hart had been convicted of raping and attempting to murder earlier had... A strip of duct tape across the mouth, another across the eyes, and finally one over the nose - effectively suffocating the victims... There was also a nylon rope found with the roll of duct tape, perhaps that was used to bind the sleeping bags together so they could be carried easier - the book does not say...
My god man that's it! ! ! ! !

Edited by MATTHEWAK47, 05 May 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#242    CuriousLittleOne

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostMATTHEWAK47, on 05 May 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

My god man that's it! ! ! ! !

sure is, get this man a cookie! :yes:

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#243    Taun

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:10 PM

I appreciate the comments... but remember that both books I got the info out of were sketchy - at best- on presenting the actual evidence, and both books were biased - one for and one against Hart... so it's all an infantryman's conjecture


#244    regi

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 02:17 AM




#245    Taun

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:02 AM

That's an intersting video regi... This is the first I've heard of this... I'll have to dig a bit and see what turns up...


#246    regi

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostTaun, on 19 August 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

That's an intersting video regi... This is the first I've heard of this...

Yeah, Taun. You know, considering the amount of investigative analysis done on this case, it's hard to believe we've never before seen that video or even heard about those circumstances.

(There's info./discussion re: that other murder on the girlscout murder yuku board.)

Edited by regi, 19 August 2013 - 01:12 PM.


#247    Silver Surfer

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:24 PM

I read all the posts on this "locust Grove" community forum and went to all the links.. this case certainly is an interesting one.. The whole things actually quite a good read... there are certainly many varying thoughts on it and some very interesting reports by first hand camp staff and locals at the time.

http://www.topix.com...MILBU3RJTRDGU18


#248    MacsMom

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:14 PM

I know this thread has been around a while, but I must say it was because of this thread that caused me to finally join UM so I could post.  This crime is one of those that just sticks with me.  Perhaps because I used to be a girl scout, perhaps it's because there has been no justice for those little girls.  

Big thanks to those that are continuing to investigate and keep this front and center here.  Hope some closure can be gotten one day.

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#249    TheBumble

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:21 PM

This video has interesting info. Includes a view of two of the autopsy head wound sketches.

https://www.youtube....be_gdata_player

Edited by TheBumble, 04 September 2013 - 09:35 PM.


#250    TheBumble

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:33 PM

More from the same news series on the case. This one includes interviews with Lori's mom, Weaver, and the man who found the cave (as well as the evidence in the cave).

https://www.youtube....be_gdata_player


#251    ronron1alpha

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:18 AM

I am perplexed by this case.  As a survivor of abuse in the 70s I must say.
75 76 foster care thats bad! Instead of letting that live me I wondered why.  What made them tick?
Harts Mo adult female. Also the other rapist I have no info. Age, so on.
The MO don't change much from serial killers to pedophiles.  That said,
18 to 80, blind crippling or crazy! In the land of opertuinity any hole may go.
Sick f.....g b......s! In time for survivors we knew to stay away.  For the pedophiles
It is common knowledge of Chester. The violence of the crime says him (s) two
How ever the MO says no. It's not hard to find good or sick in this world.
Two brothers what ever. Sick nasty human s. The tie knots preplex me.
The others may be in too young of age there fore little vwas found.
m********ion.over the the scene  would explain alot.
Alot like O J? Did he do it? Hell no. Was he there?
Yes! You cant change stupid!
Did he help? In my miind I said no he watched! Maby 3
in look was onn who had no clue that said ?


#252    QuiteContrary

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:50 PM

--I wonder how old the "boys" were he speaks of in the video? Seems somewhat questionable to me that this was a crime committed by a few boys. Boys who'd lived around the camp for some time.

--Wouldn't they have started with something other than bludgeoning deaths, as boys or young men? (been on police radar)

--I could see them assaulting some of the girl scouts, but this, as their first violent crime in the camp?

--Plus several boys would be noisy, I would think, as Taun already pointed out.

-- Possible one would have come forward or bragged about it if there were several involved?

--Very interesting video however. And odd that if indeed true, no one listened to this man. Overly? confident they were on the right perp's trail?

Idk, just thinking out loud with nothing to back it up.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 09 October 2013 - 12:53 PM.

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#253    regi

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostQuiteContrary, on 09 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

--I wonder how old the "boys" were he speaks of in the video? Seems somewhat questionable to me that this was a crime committed by a few boys. Boys who'd lived around the camp for some time.

I think they were in their late teens. I'll have to dig out my notes for details, but I recall that they were bad news, and so I'm at a loss as to why they were never investigated or at least questioned!


#254    kapow53

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:14 AM

I guess this is rare, very sad story.  Always went on GS camping trips with my daughters, and was prepared.  They are now 31 and 26.


#255    regi

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:26 PM

I was mistaken...at least one of those boys wasn't a teen. I'm not positive which other boy Trevor Bryan was referring to in that video, but one was Wesley Duffield, 23. He was convicted of the murder of Trevor Bryan's son, Jimmy Bryan, 18.

http://tahlequahdail...s-up-for-parole

In '99, Wesley Duffield's brother, Jessie Duffield (20 in '77) was convicted of rape by instrumentation.

http://www.bustedoff...-duffield/36488

http://www.muskogeep...ew-astray/print

Edited by regi, 11 October 2013 - 12:27 PM.





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