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Papyrus refers to Jesus' wife


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#1    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:05 AM

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CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of scripture: "Jesus said to them, 'My wife …'"
The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”
The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

The provenance of the papyrus fragment is a mystery, and its owner has asked to remain anonymous. Until Tuesday, King had shown the fragment to only a small circle of experts in papyrology and Coptic linguistics, who concluded that it is most likely not a forgery. But she and her collaborators say they are eager for more scholars to weigh in and perhaps upend their conclusions.
http://www.msnbc.msn...__utmk=75201554


Well, this is interesting.  This could certainly change things a bit if it is not a forgery, which at this time, it does not appear to be.


Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 19 September 2012 - 12:06 AM.

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#2    notoverrated

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:21 AM

isnt jesus having a wife and family wat the Da Vinci code is about?

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#3    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

View Postnotoverrated, on 19 September 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

isnt jesus having a wife and family wat the Da Vinci code is about?

Yeah, but in a very historically inaccurate and boringly fictional way.

This article goes on about how snippets in this are very similar to lines in the Gospels of Thomas and Mary.

"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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#4    Ashotep

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:01 AM

This is very interesting.  Wonder how it will change Christianity.  I know the thought of Jesus having a wife upset some people.  Wonder about kids.


#5    Tiggs

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:18 AM

It's yet to be verified as authentic, but even if it is - out of context, it's impossible to say what it's referring to. It could just as easily be a verse from the Old Testament that Jesus was quoting, or part of a parable that he was telling the disciples.


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#6    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:02 AM

View PostHilander, on 19 September 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

This is very interesting.  Wonder how it will change Christianity.  I know the thought of Jesus having a wife upset some people.  Wonder about kids.
Be a bit rude to bring kids into the world knowing how you're going to leave it.


#7    ambelamba

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:04 AM

The problem is that it IS a FOURTH CENTURY document, which is at least 300 years after the death of Jesus.

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#8    Dash--

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

By the 4th century there were already many alleged "heretical" writings in circulation.So,it would be no big surprise even if it was authentic.

Edited by Dash--, 19 September 2012 - 02:06 AM.

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#9    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:03 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 September 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The problem is that it IS a FOURTH CENTURY document, which is at least 300 years after the death of Jesus.

All the canonical gospel after long after his death anyway. If he were real.

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#10    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:09 AM

It is highly likely that Jesus had a wife, as he was Human after all, just like us

It would be more bewildering if he was not married, as the churches state/dictate, which when anyone mention's such a thing they call them heretic's

and the fact Jesus could of possibly been married as heresy

There is a lot of Gospel's that the church have omiited from the Bible due to it not fitting in with what they believe it should be (council of nicea), it is possible that

the Vatican have known about such text's s like the one in the OP from day one

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#11    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:31 AM

I sort of thought he was more interested in men.


#12    Tiggs

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 September 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

The problem is that it IS a FOURTH CENTURY document, which is at least 300 years after the death of Jesus.

Depends what you mean by problem.

The first fragment we have of Jude is also from the 4th Century. That still made the Biblical Canon.

The date of this particular document only establishes the latest possible end date (the terminus ante quem) for the autograph - the original text.

It would only be problematic if you could establish that it was, in fact, the autograph, and had not been copied from an earlier document. From the linked article in the OP:

"She surmises that this fragment is also copied from a second-century Greek text".

If so, then it's possibly within a century of Jesus' death.


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#13    libstaK

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

I think that the "canon" would have a problem with it.  I wouldn't, it doesn't change the message just the Patriarchal dogmatics' interpretation of it.

Edited by libstaK, 19 September 2012 - 09:44 AM.

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#14    None of the above

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:45 AM

Ah if only it was a little bit bigger... just a few more words.....

"Jesus said to them, 'My wife Peter and I have made Brunch for all 5000 of you'…'"


#15    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:33 AM

It is pretty much worthless without context, as Tiggs pointed out. Still interesting, though. More inline with the Gnostic gospels than the canonical ones.
Here are all the translated bits that I can find for those that are interested. (I do not know if this is the sum of the writing on the piece)

"'... not [to] me. My mother gave to me li[fe] ...'"

"The disciples said to Jesus, '..."

"deny. Mary is worthy of it" (Or: "deny. Mary is n[ot] worthy of it")

"...' Jesus said to them, 'My wife...'"

"... she will be able to be my disciple ..."

"Let wicked people swell up ..."

"As for me, I dwell with her in order to ..."

"an image"

"my moth[er]"

"three"

"forth which ..."


"A cat has nine lives. For three he plays, for three he strays, and for the last three he stays."


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