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Papyrus refers to Jesus' wife


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#91    docyabut2

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

I`d` wait to see if this fragment is a forgery.The owner`s name is not given, or where it was found and why as now that it was brought forward.


#92    SSilhouette

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 12:08 AM

Forgery or not, the passage in the bible at the crucifixion names just three witnesses present beside Christ nailed to the cross.  All three were women; and Jesus spoke to one, his "beloved disciple" and told "him" [her] to take Jesus' mother Mary into "his" [her] home.  That is the smoking gun for many biblical scholars who contest that "John" [of no family lineage named, the singular exception with all the disciples] was really Magdalene and that such strong custom of the day forbade women from any status equal to men, that they "had" to change her to "him"or "his" in the passage at the mount.  Whoever wrote the passage was telling the world something about what was really going on..

Edited by SSilhouette, 23 September 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#93    docyabut2

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:22 AM

'SSilhouette- qoute-
Forgery or not, the passage in the bible at the crucifixion names just three witnesses present beside Christ nailed to the cross.  All three were women; and Jesus spoke to one, his "beloved disciple" and told "him" [her] to take Jesus' mother Mary into "his" [her] home.  That is the smoking gun for many biblical scholars who contest that "John" [of no family lineage named, the singular exception with all the disciples] was really Magdalene and that such strong custom of the day forbade women from any status equal to men, that they "had" to change her to "him"or "his" in the passage at the mount.  Whoever wrote the passage was telling the world something about what was really going on..


A side from the other opinions I posted,  I do agree with you.  I do consider Mary Magdalne may have been this beloved disciple.In reading the bible, they do have this beloved disciple laying on Jesus`s bosom in the mountain:), but does any of it really point to the fact that he was married to her. I do believe she was the women that he had saved from stoning, and was lazarus`s sister, that he had brought to her home to untie with her family, and that he did love her very much, but wife is still questionable. And please don`nt go into that debate of the churchs of who Mary Magdalene really was.  I pretty convinced she was the women Jesus had saved from stoning and the seven demons.

As you might know I am also going by the psyhic Cayce`s past life readings, and who knows a psyhic might know something.:) He did state  a phrase similar to that effect. If  I reading it right.:) He did say this women entity went to notify Jesus`s mother, as indicated in the holy writings he gave, behold the women to you she is given be to her a son in my stead .This women then took Jesus`s Mother to her home and then later they went to John`s home to establish the Mother.


#94    SSilhouette

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

Quote

I do consider Mary Magdalne may have been this beloved disciple.In reading the bible, they do have this beloved disciple laying on Jesus`s bosom in the mountain:), but does any of it really point to the fact that he was married to her.

Well, old Edgar Cayce was right about some things but he stretched himself too thin.  His guides warned him not to do sessions too often but he did anyway.  And in the end I think it affected his seeing.  When you're tired, the organic mind can overlap on true seeings and impose itself on them.  I find it easier to hang my hat on nothing and just look at emperical, eyewitness and circumstantial evidence and then make an informed decision after that.

instead of being a harlot, I think Magdalene came from a family of some means..as memory serves.  It probably served the jealous apostles to say she was a harlot though.  What more perfect slur to immediately dethrone her importance at the right hand of Jesus.  Men and women didn't just pal around together.  That culture did not allow that unless the two were married or related by blood.  So her being repeatedly cited a "The Beloved Disciple"  "closest to Jesus" means she was his wife.  That is the meaning of "wife" back in those days.  Men didn't travel and officiate in public with their whore at their side.  Folks tended to get stoned for stuff like that.


#95    docyabut2

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:35 PM

Cayce was pretty clear .Mary Magdalene was not the kind Jesus would have married, all though he loved all.

Also in the second passage in The Gospel of Philip that concerns Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her often on her ?.( never said mouth) The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him, ‘Why do you love her more than all of us?’

If Mary was truely Jesus `s wife, why would the other disciples be so offended and express such disapproval of him kissing her, or caring for her.Surely if Jesus had been married to Mary then his special affection for her wouldn’t have been an offense

Edited by docyabut2, 23 September 2012 - 09:38 PM.


#96    docyabut2

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:20 AM

Roman customs or laws dealing with the burial of crucified criminals, we find some guidance in DJ 48.24, which gives the clement views of Ulpian and of Julius Paulus from the period CA. AD 200. The bodies of those who suffer capital punishment are not to be refused to their relatives.

If Mary Magdalene was truely his wife, she would have been allowed to take her husband`s body.


#97    SSilhouette

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:54 AM

Quote

If Mary was truely Jesus `s wife, why would the other disciples be so offended and express such disapproval of him kissing her, or caring for her.Surely if Jesus had been married to Mary then his special affection for her wouldn’t have been an offense

So was Jesus' wife down with him consorting regularly and exclusively with the woman Magdalene?  I'm thinking "no" on that rhetorical question..lol..

And as to the deceased and who got the body, Mary his mother surely would've been allowed his body also.  But wasn't.  Curious..


#98    docyabut2

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

SSilhouette - qoute

And as to the deceased and who got the body, Mary his mother surely would've been allowed his body also.  But wasn't.  Curious..


Curious as well in reading the Bible.  Matthew ,Mark and Luke do not have Jesus`s Mother at the cross.

Matthew 27-56

Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.


Mark15- 40

There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;


Luke23- 49

And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.

Luke 24-10
It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary [the mother] of James, and other [women that were] with them, which told these things unto the apostles.


#99    SSilhouette

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

Sounds like convenient redacting to me.  Either there were three women only close to the cross or three women "afar off" or two women or "all his acquaintance".

Looks like someone early on said "hey wait a minute.." about the passage at the cross with only three women and the "beloved disciple" comments Jesus addressed one of them as.  After all, if you're going to make Mary Magdalene a "he" named "John' as the beloved disciple, you'd have to convince all the monks and scribes that changing the Holy Account of history was "the right thing to do"..  And these conflicts, instead of lending credence to a male "beloved disciple", instead lend an eye of suspicion about the True Account of history..  And because they foster suspicion towards the bible, as well they should, their sloppy redaction lends suspicion therefore on all the other accounts within.  Who changed what, for which political purpose...and when?  It is a blasphemy on the Word of God to change the true identity of the beloved disciple.

The devil couldn't have done a better job...hey...wait a minute...!

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Edited by SSilhouette, 24 September 2012 - 05:25 PM.


#100    Jackofalltrades

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:56 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 23 September 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Cayce was pretty clear .Mary Magdalene was not the kind Jesus would have married, all though he loved all.

Also in the second passage in The Gospel of Philip that concerns Mary Magdalene. But Christ loved her more than all the disciples and used to kiss her often on her ?.( never said mouth) The rest of the disciples were offended by it and expressed disapproval. They said to him, ‘Why do you love her more than all of us?’

If Mary was truely Jesus `s wife, why would the other disciples be so offended and express such disapproval of him kissing her, or caring for her.Surely if Jesus had been married to Mary then his special affection for her wouldn’t have been an offense

There is no way on this earth anyone can say whether or not someone would marry another person or not or if that person is the kind of person they would marry, unless they are that person (if that make's sense lol)

Even though it does not state mouth, it also does not state it was not her mouth in fact it does not state anything

Why would Jesus kiss any woman as much as he did Mary Magdalene if she was NOT his wife ?

Why would he care and love her more than his disciple's if Mary was NOT his wife ?

Why would the other disciple's be so jealous or envious of Mary Magdalene ?

My theory to the last question would be that Jesus and Mary was married, and that due to them being married they often talked (like married couple's do) when they was on their own in private

And due to that, the other disciple's grew jealous and envious due to them feeling like they was being left out of the loop, they themselve's wanted to know everything that Jesus knew of and did not want Mary to be the special one that had more knowledge of such thing's that they did not know or wanted to know of

There are numerous Mary's in the Bible, and due to that fact there is no guarantee that Mary Magdalene was THE Mary that was saved from stoning and the seven demon's

And also, due to the fact of the council of Nicea changed or omitted some Gospel's part's of the Bible then it is also possible they re wrote some part's to suit their own agenda

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#101    SSilhouette

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

Here here!

..lol...  Leave it to a guy anyway to marry a gal just like his mamma.  Well with the same name and temperament anyway..


#102    docyabut2

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:20 PM

Ok guys I`m still not really convinced Jesus would have been married to Mary Magdalene or that she was the beloved disciple .If Jesus did have a wife she was totally out of the picture, or just not mention.Like said there were many women and Marys that followed and supported Jesus,  however if there was any true documentation of a marrige, his wife would have been abled to take his body.

Edited by docyabut2, 25 September 2012 - 01:04 PM.


#103    SSilhouette

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:23 AM

So would have his mother.  He wasn't just any old political capital punishment victim.  He was THE political capital punishment victim.  That body had quite a lot of significance attached to it and the Romans weren't keen on any more "hero worship" going on.

Three women only at the cross.  Jesus addressed one of them as "the beloved disciple".  "He kissed her often on the mouth", in the presence of others.  If not his wife, then who was Magdalene to Jesus under those descriptions anyone can find in the Bible?


#104    docyabut2

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, “Woman, behold thy son!” Then saith he to the disciple, “Behold thy mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. (Jn. 19:25-27)

The way I reading it Matthew ,Mark and Luke have three women standing afar and looking from a afar and do not say Jesus`s mother was one of them,where as John the only one states  three women, one as Jesus`s mother and the beloved disciple were at the cross.

Perhaps this refers to a later period much closer to the moment of Christ’s death. John’s account refers to a time when perhaps the mockery and fierce outbursts of anger had died down a bit and the beloved disciple with the women could move very close to the cross. There is historical evidence that indicates it was not uncommon for Roman soldiers to allow relatives and friends of the person crucified to come near the cross to mourn and sympathize for the victim. So it does`nt rule out that this beloved disciple may have been a he as was said, John Mark.







    





#105    docyabut2

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

Excuse me to late to edit :)

The way I reading it Matthew ,Mark and Luke have three women standing afar and looking from a afar and do not say Jesus`s mother was one of them,where as John the only one thats states four women, one as Jesus`s mother and the beloved disciple were at the cross.


So I reading it as later the three women,plus Jesus`s mother and the beloved disciple went up to the cross.

Edited by docyabut2, 26 September 2012 - 02:06 PM.





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