114 replies to this topic

[Bling]

 Professor T, on 20 October 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Wow. I had a look at the link..
You've sure lived in a few haunted houses.. I'd change my realestate agent if I were you. lol..
seriously though, I think you are a sensitive, perhaps because of so many events in your life.  

I think if I were you and wanted to take a stab at communicating through the Ouija, I'd try to contact this boy called Mark.  As a young spirit who already knows you, he'd probably answer your call strait up, unless he's already moved on or whatever it is they do. But don't be surpised if he doesn't answer, and someone else starts conveying info to your parter and not you.. That's what surpised me when I did it, the info didn't make sence to me, it was all memories of someone elses life, nicknames, events that meant nothing to me..

I never thought of Mark!  I guess I don't really know enough about spirit guides to form an opinion, is that what you think he is or just a kid that thinks I'm cool

[Professor T]

 Bling, on 20 October 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I never thought of Mark!  I guess I don't really know enough about spirit guides to form an opinion, is that what you think he is or just a kid that thinks I'm cool

I don't know much at all about Spirit guides..
Perhaps he is one? I really wouldn't know.. I was actually thinking that perhaps he'd been hanging around you because either he think's your cool, or he somehow feeds from your energy.. *shrugs* I really don't have much experience with guides or spirits, just 2nd hand info from books and a scattering of small experiances across my life..

[Bling]

 Professor T, on 20 October 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

I don't know much at all about Spirit guides..
Perhaps he is one? I really wouldn't know.. I was actually thinking that perhaps he'd been hanging around you because either he think's your cool, or he somehow feeds from your energy.. *shrugs* I really don't have much experience with guides or spirits, just 2nd hand info from books and a scattering of small experiances across my life..

I think it's because I'm cool

[coldethyl]

 ouija ouija, on 20 October 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

That's interesting. I couldn't do it on my own and neither could the other person I usually sat with. Someone further back in this thread also said they couldn't, although successful with others.

Can you explain what you mean by 'muscle memory' please?

Sure.  I'll post the link first before I forget and Saru removes it for not citing, lol http://en.wikipedia....otor_phenomenon.

Here is an example of muscle memory:
If you were to be asked to imagine doing up your shoelaces as vividly as possible, your brain would consciously fixate on the task and work through it as vividly and as logically as possible. The theory of IMR would imply that your muscular memory associated with your hands, would then attempt the task physically, but abort the process unless it was truly necessary and curtail the events that would unfold if you were actually willing to send the complete information along your nervous system to your hands. This may therefore involve an involuntary 'twitch' or movement of the associated digits are placed into preparation of function, processed against reality and then given the signal to not actually act.
In hypnosis, this may be circumvented by dissociating the particular thought-process-response-abort of a digit or entire limb; and therefore give control to the unconscious mind to enable (by suggestion) the route of conscious thought-unconscious process-conscious process (of the fact)-conscious response (do not act)- unconscious response (dissociate from conscious)- ignore abortive conscious attempt- unconscious unabort... Which would then display a reaction or response in a physical manner or behavioral context.
Body language may be considered the most commonly visible aspect of IMR, but may also include such unconscious activities as doodling or art - as the conscious thought is sublimated into a different type of activity in unconscious expression.


It's actually quite interesting and has a long history.  I had no idea about it when we used the ouija.  I never could work it by myself, but my sister could as I said before.  There have been threads here where people stated that they can work the ouija on their own as well.

I'm not sure if they can one way or the other.  I do believe however, that the subconscious mind is an interesting thing to tap even if the ouija isn't tapping into the spirit world.  It is all interesting and a wonderful subject either way.

[coldethyl]

 OrdinaryClay, on 20 October 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I understand, but there is no evidence the ideomotor can do what the skeptics claim. It's simply an alternative explanation that has large assumptions attached to it.

 OrdinaryClay, on 20 October 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I'm sorry to disappoint you but muscle memory does not produce coherent conversations. It takes a conscious mind to do that.

There is more evidence for idoeomotor than there is evidence for the spirit world imo which has assumptions attached to it as well.     Also, see the reply with the link for more info on the ideomotor effect and muscle memory.

[Ninhursag]

It would be really cool if you bumped into, what was he called, Dr.58, in one of your sessions

[OrdinaryClay]

 coldethyl, on 20 October 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

There is more evidence for idoeomotor than there is evidence for the spirit world imo which has assumptions attached to it as well.    

You conclude this because you are using the counter explanation to defeat the existence of the supernatural. Which is circular. To claim one has more evidence than the other you need to have independent lines of evidence for each case.

Quote

Also, see the reply with the link for more info on the ideomotor effect and muscle memory.

I saw the stuff in wikipedia. I suspect you dearly want to believe this is an adequate explanation for what is seen in spirit board divination, but it is clearly not. If we are to believe participants then muscle memory does not explain coherent extended conversations. Only a conscious mind does this. Stop and think about it for a moment. How could muscle memory possibly induce a coherent verbal or printed conversation. There is no science that suggest it can.

[AshenPhoenix]

 Bling, on 20 October 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I don't think I'd do it on my own as it's an experience I'd want to share with someone, to prove it's authenticity or otherwise. If I do it I will video the session.

If you have a voice recorder I would turn it on and try to catch some EVP's.  Also might be a good idea to keep a thermometer in the room.  Record the temp before, during & after.  Just a thought.  

Also, please read up on the proper way to close the portal when you're done... unless you want to chance a rouge entity attaching itself to you.

[Bling]

 AshenPhoenix, on 21 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

If you have a voice recorder I would turn it on and try to catch some EVP's.  Also might be a good idea to keep a thermometer in the room.  Record the temp before, during & after.  Just a thought.  

Also, please read up on the proper way to close the portal when you're done... unless you want to chance a rouge entity attaching itself to you.

I'll definately close things properly, I don't want to be haunted! Thanks for the advice

[AshenPhoenix]

 Bling, on 20 October 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I never thought of Mark!  I guess I don't really know enough about spirit guides to form an opinion, is that what you think he is or just a kid that thinks I'm cool

There's a difference between spirits watching over you and spirit guides.  Actually, spirits and ghosts are two totally different things (but not going into that).
This link is a basic tutorial with some useful info.  http://spiritwalkmin...m/spirit_guides  I practice a strange mix of christianity, wiccan & shamanism.  But to each their own...

[Bling]

 AshenPhoenix, on 21 October 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

There's a difference between spirits watching over you and spirit guides.  Actually, spirits and ghosts are two totally different things (but not going into that).
This link is a basic tutorial with some useful info.  http://spiritwalkmin...m/spirit_guides  I practice a strange mix of christianity, wiccan & shamanism.  But to each their own...

I'll check out that link, thanks.

Any theories why Mark would be watching over me?

[AshenPhoenix]

 Bling, on 21 October 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I'll check out that link, thanks.

Any theories why Mark would be watching over me?

What's the nature of your association with him?

[Bling]

 AshenPhoenix, on 22 October 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

What's the nature of your association with him?

All I know is what a spiritualist medium told me during a reading - that I had a spirit of a young boy called Mark, dressed similar to the Tudor period, and he follows me wherever I go because he likes me or knows me from a past life. She could see him standing next to me and he was smiling. that was 15 years ago.

Edited by Bling, 22 October 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[AshenPhoenix]

 Bling, on 22 October 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

All I know is what a spiritualist medium told me during a reading - that I had a spirit of a young boy called Mark, dressed similar to the Tudor period, and he follows me wherever I go because he likes me or knows me from a past life. She could see him standing next to me and he was smiling. that was 15 years ago.

Not saying it isn't true... but I would take such things with a grain of salt.  Has 'Mark' tried in any way to contact you or let you know he's there?  Do you have any proof or just going on the word of someone else?  How well did you know this medium and have any others mentioned "Mark' or anyone of his description around you?  If he truly does exist he'll attempt to make himself known if he hasn't already.  You just need to be open to it.  Or your medium friend may be one of the many phonies.

In the end, don't listen to what other people tell you about your spiritual journey.  You have everything you need to discover what you're meant to know.  Trust in that.

[ouija ouija]

 AshenPhoenix, on 22 October 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

In the end, don't listen to what other people tell you about your spiritual journey. You have everything you need to discover what you're meant to know. Trust in that..

This is spot on!