87 replies to this topic

[TheMacGuffin]

Say Oberg, why don't you ever answer my little questions about Arthur Rudolf and the rest of the Nazi crew at NASA?  What did you know about them and when did you know it, and how come you've never said a word about it?

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 31 December 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 31 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

All right, this is the first time I heard of it.  The reports of nuclear explosions on Mars by the Japanese astronomer Tsuneo Saheki from 1933 to 1954 were real.  Clyde Tombaugh also reported such explosions on Mars in 1941 as did the Russians in 1956.  McClelland only says that he say a similar explosion in 1954, and that he is not even sure if he believes in Martians.

Thanks for the followup with additional info on his claim. I had presumed that his claim referred to the same one seen by the Japanese astronomer as reported in TIME magazine. Now I've found a link where he claims to have seen an explosion in 1954 that was NOT seen by anyone else, so I retract my earlier criticism. I'll check with the observatory to see if they have any records of the event there. This is good progress.

[TheMacGuffin]

JimOberg, on 31 December 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

Thanks for the followup with additional info on his claim. I had presumed that his claim referred to the same one seen by the Japanese astronomer as reported in TIME magazine. Now I've found a link where he claims to have seen an explosion in 1954 that was NOT seen by anyone else, so I retract my earlier criticism. I'll check with the observatory to see if they have any records of the event there. This is good progress.

I did not hear him say anything about Nazi bases at the South Pole, at least not in those three videos on your link, and indeed I cannot recall him saying anything like that.  I am pretty familiar with the things he has said about UFOs and ETs, and of course I believe him rather than you, since you spend a great deal of time attempting to smear him, along with Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, etc, etc.  

There are many things about you I find very distasteful, and that's the truth.  I've seen your type quite a lot during my own military career and would always watch my back with someone like you.

There you have it.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 31 December 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 31 December 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

He goes on about how NASA destroyed his pension and he's living on Social Security, and that he saw pictures of an 8-9 foot tall "entity" on the space shuttle.  When he revealed this he lost his job and his pension  

What NASA pension was he entitled to? Space contractors at the Cape handled their own retirement plans for non-civil-service workers.

His narrative has him 'losing his job' in 1992, but I can't find any source referring to his claim of seeing the alien on a secret NASA TV channel until more than a decade later. Is there any documentation that he 'revealed' this to anyone in 1992?

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 31 December 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

I did not hear him say anything about Nazi bases at the South Pole, at least not in those three videos on your link, and indeed I cannot recall him saying anything like that.  ...

It was in a Rense interview a few months ago, let me get you the exact URL.

[TheOtherSide1945]

JimOberg, on 31 December 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

JimOberg, on 29 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

And so this all is supposed to make us believe that when McClelland says there are secret Nazi bases in Antarctica, launching UFOs, because German rocket scientists winked at him in code when he asked them, he deserves our trust? Watch his recent videos on youtube and try not to spray coffee over the keyboard.


This is the question you have dodged with the totally off-topic clumsy evasion gambit.

YOU brought up McClelland as a source we ought to trust.

Now you won't even answer questions about your OWN 'expert witness'.

You haven't proven there isn't Nazis in Antarctica. Its documented that there were weird things happening during the 40's and 50's on Mars, not just one incident. He could have seen another "explosion" later on when Mars was viewable in Pittsburg. In fact, I would believe Clark McClellend over you any day.

Here on your UFO debunk list thing:

77 Q: How can you dare to disbelieve a true American hero such as Gordon Cooper.
A: I’ve researched his stories deeply, and found that his tales tend to get more dramatic with the years – a typical narrative effect. I’ve found many independent witnesses to both his pre-NASA stories [Germany and Edwards AFB] who all describe much less spectacular occurrences [writers who claim the stories have never been explained are ignorant of these research activities]. In other cases where Cooper recounted documented spaceflight experiences, he often added unreal dramatic details, possibly for audience satisfaction. Some fantastic stories can only be explained as designed to generously please his audiences – best example is his autobiography account of how he saved the space shuttle from a lethal design flaw by relaying a telepathic warning from space aliens. Links TBD

78 Q: How can you dare to disbelieve a true American hero such as Edgar Mitchell?
A: I’m happy to accept Mitchell’s personal opinions on other stories he’s heard, but he has nothing to contribute to the ‘space UFO’ subject. I’m glad that there are some intelligent people trying to map the limits of human knowledge – and beyond – as he has done since his space career. When I analyze his published works, such as the report of his private ESP experiment on Apollo-14, I get the impression of a man so excited by the concepts that he may not bring sufficient skepticism and rigor to his criteria for credibility. His report on his ESP experiment, for example, strikes me as ‘ad hoc’ modification to the ‘success’ scoring criteria after the fact, to make essentially random results look significant by changing the rules after the game. I’m glad he had the boldness to conduct the experiment, but I’m not alone in concluding that a proper assessment of the results show nothing significant.

But remember what you already said:

29 Q: Are you calling the astronauts liars?
A: Just the opposite – I’m advocating listening to what the real astronauts really say about their experiences, which is usually NOT the way it is reported on websites and cable TV. It’s the UFO proponents who are accusing the astronauts of lying when they do NOT agree that they’ve seen UFOs in space,.

This is the opposite of what you say later, "Some fantastic stories can only be explained as designed to generously please his audiences" You do know you are calling Gordon Cooper a liar right?

You imply Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Cooper are making up these stories for fame? I would believe the astronauts before a support tech, they were there. Now it is possible that what you are accusing them of is true(lying), then what? A bunch of them got together and said lets make up stuff about aliens to get famous? I really dont think so, they already are famous. They definately arent getting money from it. Even Buzz is talking about anomolies on Phobos. Do you need the link for the video?

So you are calling Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Coopers liars. Why should I believe you when you call other previous employees of NASA liars? You have no proof to not debunk their claims. Is that not your point of being on here?

[TheMacGuffin]

Oberg smears astronauts all the time and calls them liars and fools.  I've seen him do it many times on here, including with Copper and Mitchell--or anyone else who disagrees with him about UFOs and ETs.

He's basically a snake in the grass, but there are a lot of "skeptics" exactly like him.  That's the kind they attract.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 31 December 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Say Oberg, why don't you ever answer my little questions about Arthur Rudolf and the rest of the Nazi crew at NASA?  What did you know about them and when did you know it, and how come you've never said a word about it?

How on Earth would you ever know if I'd ever said a word on it, or not?

How come you make up false facts in your imagination and throw them into these conversations?

I've written about the moral issue of the V2 program, as it relates to 'rocketry being born in sin', but I tend to agree with Freeman Dyson that Hitler's fascination with wunder-waffen such as the A4 turned out to be a blessing for the Allies since it wasted so much high-tech and precious-fuel resources that otherwise could have built really efficient killing machines such as jet interceptors. Thousands died because of that program, but perhaps the rockets shortened the war by many months, thus saving millions. It remains a sticky ethical issue.

Do you know of any of the V2 team that ever served in Houston in the post-1975 period, when I was there, or didn't you bother to even check?

[TheMacGuffin]

JimOberg, on 31 December 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

What NASA pension was he entitled to? Space contractors at the Cape handled their own retirement plans for non-civil-service workers.

His narrative has him 'losing his job' in 1992, but I can't find any source referring to his claim of seeing the alien on a secret NASA TV channel until more than a decade later. Is there any documentation that he 'revealed' this to anyone in 1992?

You'd have to ask him about that, if he would even speak to you at all after the way you have been trashing him for years.

He insists repeatedly that he lost his job, his pension and his family because of these UFO and ET revelations, and overall seems a very angry and unhappy man.  I don't blame him.

[JimOberg]

TheOtherSide1945, on 31 December 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

You haven't proven there isn't Nazis in Antarctica. .....

So you are calling Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Coopers liars. Why should I believe you when you call other previous employees of NASA liars? You have no proof to not debunk their claims. Is that not your point of being on here?

Well, with Cooper, he has told 'war stories' such as the telepathic space warning, or his seeing pictures HE took that showed license plates, that are unworthy of rational belief, as real experts can also tell you -- and they aren't liars. For his Germany and Edwards AFB stories, you can actually watch him modify and improve the tale over the years -- and you can compare his later versions to accounts by EVERY other witness in both areas, and THEY can't all be liars. In his later years, he endorsed bogus business investment projects, probably with all sincerity but little good judgment, that were invested in by people who knew his reputation and trusted his judgment without double-checking. and they lost millions of dollars [he invested too, and lost it all, too]. What would you call THAT?

Mitchell has always struck me as sincere, and never a deliberate falsifier or deceiver -- and I'm sorry if any of my writings gave a different impression. But I suggest you should be the one reading them more carefully and not over-interprfeting them to mean somethingh they never were intended to.

[DONTEATUS]

HAppy NEw YEar Jim `O ! Were bound to find those pesky Aliens this year !
Well bound to sumptin!

[TheOtherSide1945]

JimOberg, on 31 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Well, with Cooper, he has told 'war stories' such as the telepathic space warning, or his seeing pictures HE took that showed license plates, that are unworthy of rational belief, as real experts can also tell you -- and they aren't liars. For his Germany and Edwards AFB stories, you can actually watch him modify and improve the tale over the years -- and you can compare his later versions to accounts by EVERY other witness in both areas, and THEY can't all be liars. In his later years, he endorsed bogus business investment projects, probably with all sincerity but little good judgment, that were invested in by people who knew his reputation and trusted his judgment without double-checking. and they lost millions of dollars [he invested too, and lost it all, too]. What would you call THAT?

Mitchell has always struck me as sincere, and never a deliberate falsifier or deceiver -- and I'm sorry if any of my writings gave a different impression. But I suggest you should be the one reading them more carefully and not over-interprfeting them to mean somethingh they never were intended to.

sorry for being offensive. its just in my expierence that there is such a thing as telepathic warning. i dont know much about the license plates.  i can go into why i believe in telepathic warniing if needed. i would call him a bad buisness man. most often honest men are bad buisness men. i do over-interprit things, i admit that. im sick of having personal expierences being said as exagerations, again from personal expierence.

[JimOberg]

TheOtherSide1945, on 01 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

sorry for being offensive. its just in my expierence that there is such a thing as telepathic warning. i dont know much about the license plates.  i can go into why i believe in telepathic warniing if needed. i would call him a bad buisness man. most often honest men are bad buisness men. i do over-interprit things, i admit that. im sick of having personal expierences being said as exagerations, again from personal expierence.

No offense taken, sorry for the unclear criticism. I wasn't a priori rejecting the concept, just the claim Cooper made about a specific design flaw that I checked with shuttle engineers and confirmed never existed and never was 'fixed'. All shuttle design and redesign in formation is completely 'open book', and the 'flaw' is fictitious.  Nor did I mean to criticize Cooper as a bad businessman -- my point was the unwarrented credibility he exploited among the public  who injudiciously and erroneously jumped to the conclusion, without bothering to check, that because he was a NASA-certified 'space hero' everything he said deserved immediate and total belief. It cost them millions of dollars. That notion is the one often heard in the UFO world where folks who think they are resisting 'NASA anti-UFO propaganda" are actually showing they have already fallen for NASA propaganda about the infallibility and omniscience of the astronauts.