Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

The US Dollar vs. The Gold Standard

gold dollar inflation fed federal reserve

  • Please log in to reply
227 replies to this topic

#1    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,412 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:52 PM



"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#2    Supersquatch

Supersquatch

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 486 posts
  • Joined:30 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth, Milky Way, Local Group

  • Supersquatch powers, activate!

Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:24 AM

I learned in a constitution class that, for some reason, America's currency was taken off the gold and silver standards. I don't see how that makes any sense, as that's how we define how much our money is worth. Now we have inflation. Instead, it is now controlled by the Federal Reserve, which is neither federal nor a reserve.

Posted Image

#3    ninjadude

ninjadude

    Seeker of truths

  • Member
  • 10,978 posts
  • Joined:11 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

  • "dirt collects at the interfaces"

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:24 AM

View PostTaylor Reints, on 26 September 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

as that's how we define how much our money is worth.

No it's not. For some time now. Another person living in the past.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#4    synchronomy

synchronomy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined:05 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario Canada

  • Facinating

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:41 AM

It's a fiat currency.  It's based on the net worth of the economy.  Gross domestic product etc.
Many countries have the same system.
With the catastrophic economic global environment of recent years, some countries have been buying gold.  China and India have been buying staggering amounts in recent years.
China, owns our butts anyway...they're buying up gold to make sure it stays that way.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#5    Supersquatch

Supersquatch

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 486 posts
  • Joined:30 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth, Milky Way, Local Group

  • Supersquatch powers, activate!

Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:48 AM

View Postninjadude, on 26 September 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

No it's not. For some time now. Another person living in the past.

I know it has not been for a while now. However, look at the inflation of regular items you buy at the grocery store. By the way, I'm not nostalgic.

Posted Image

#6    synchronomy

synchronomy

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined:05 Mar 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ontario Canada

  • Facinating

Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:59 AM

View PostTaylor Reints, on 26 September 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

I know it has not been for a while now. However, look at the inflation of regular items you buy at the grocery store. By the way, I'm not nostalgic.

There have been many times in many countries when inflation has been far higher than anything seen since the fiat system was adopted.  Inflation has been going on since humans first develped currency.
The inflation of recent years is nothing new, if fact it's pretty damn good compared to what I've seen in my lifetime.
Read up on the Oil Embargo and the Energy Crisis of the 70's.  Look up the interest rates/inflation rates of the 79's and 80's.

Edited by synchronomy, 26 September 2012 - 03:01 AM.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#7    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,377 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:31 AM

View Postsynchronomy, on 26 September 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

There have been many times in many countries when inflation has been far higher than anything seen since the fiat system was adopted.  Inflation has been going on since humans first develped currency.
The inflation of recent years is nothing new, if fact it's pretty damn good compared to what I've seen in my lifetime.
Read up on the Oil Embargo and the Energy Crisis of the 70's.  Look up the interest rates/inflation rates of the 79's and 80's.
I remember it well.  It was an absolute choke hold on economic activity.  It seems we are well on the way back to the past.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#8    acidhead

acidhead

    Were Not Your Slaves!

  • Member
  • 10,416 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Victoria, BC CANADA

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:55 AM

yeah... just keep pumping the money supply and everything will be fine........ moron talk

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#9    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,957 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:00 AM

View Postacidhead, on 26 September 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

yeah... just keep pumping the money supply and everything will be fine........ moron talk

Simply pointing out the problem isn't a solution, and the Gold standard is just an appealing but naive solution to the problem.

Robert Anton Wilson talks about the true nature of money;




Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 26 September 2012 - 07:44 AM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#10    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,412 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:36 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

Simply pointing out the problem isn't a solution, and the Gold standard is just an appealing but naive solution to the problem.

Robert Anton Wilson talks about the true nature of money;




Br Cornelius
Wilson has the truth of it.  You're arguing with the wrong people.  You should tell questionmark that Federal Reserve Notes aren't money immediately because that's the only example of money he's got.    Explain how the gold standard is appealing.  Please explain how it's naive.

We're way past done with problem recognition.  Let's enter the solutions phase.   I am providing the solution and you're not explaining, other than making a lot of empty statements, what's wrong with it.  What's the problem for the hundred years before the Fed was created and the dollar was stable?   What's the alternative to magic wands and magic zero percent interest rates?

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#11    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,957 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

You simply choose to believe that your pet fiction has more intrinsic value than the feds. That naive.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#12    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,218 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostYamato, on 26 September 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Wilson has the truth of it.  You're arguing with the wrong people.  You should tell questionmark that Federal Reserve Notes aren't money immediately because that's the only example of money he's got. Explain how the gold standard is appealing.  Please explain how it's naive.

We're way past done with problem recognition.  Let's enter the solutions phase.   I am providing the solution and you're not explaining, other than making a lot of empty statements, what's wrong with it.  What's the problem for the hundred years before the Fed was created and the dollar was stable?   What's the alternative to magic wands and magic zero percent interest rates?

I don't get why you are beating the dead horse gold. We know that gold is limited and that there is not enough of it to even guarantee the money in circulation.

What you are advocating is a state directed economy where companies are told: "Yo, when you reach 2% growth this year you have to stop because we are not mining enough gold to cover it or there won't be enough money to sell your stuff."

If you want a commodity backed currency the minimum you have to do is to find one that can be expanded to cover 88 million new people every year. And that gold can not.

It is naive to base currency on something that does not even cover the current need of money in circulation.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#13    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,957 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

To illustrate the point that there is nothing magical about Gold and that a Gold based economy shares almost all of the flaws of Fiat currency;

Quote

THE MONETARY SYSTEM we have inherited is more than 2,000
years old. The German word for money, which is "Geld,"
links it rather precisely to its origin which was gold. Gold,
a fairly useless metal except for jewelry and ornaments,
became the preferred exchange medium around 700
B.C. in the Roman Empire. Money always meant
coinage. This was the concept which was incorporated in
the U.S. Constitution. Gold and silver coins (or their
depository receipts) were the only fully legal tender in the
U.S.A. until 1934. To this day, many people - mainly
those who see the disadvantages of the practically
unlimited possibilities for creating paper money- favor a
return to the gold standard for money.
When Silvio Gesell published his book "Die Natürliche
Wirtschaftsordnung
" (The Natural Economic Order) in
1904, about three-quarters of the book dealt with this issue.
(26) Against all the established economists of his time he tried
to prove theoretically and with practical examples that the gold
standard was not only unnecessary but detrimental
to a well-functioning monetary system based on interest
free money.
Today, we know that the gold standard is not a nec-
essary precondition. There is no money system in the world
now which is based on the gold standard. John Maynard
Keynes, who was well acquainted with Silvio Gesell's work,
helped to eliminate this barrier to a well-functioning
economy in the 1930s. What he forgot to advocate, how-
ever, was the other essential ingredient: the replacement
of interest by a circulation fee. This is largely why we are
in trouble now and will be at regular intervals until we
have learned the lesson.

http://userpage.fu-b...glish/chap4.htm

I see the flaws in the Fed system but don't want a barely better solution to replace it.

This site offers a wealth of suggestion for alternatives to the Fed vs Gold false dichotomy.



Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 26 September 2012 - 04:00 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#14    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,218 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

To illustrate the point that there is nothing magical about Gold and that a Gold based economy shares almost all of the flaws of Fiat currency;



http://userpage.fu-b...glish/chap4.htm

I see the flaws in the Fed system but don't want a barely better solution to replace it.

Br Cornelius

The biggest flaw is that, to the contrary of the intention, the FED is not as independent as once was intended and that those who have the political oversight of the FED, as a rule, know as much about economy as I know about being pope (which is quite a distance away from an apostate Jew like me).

The second biggest flaw of the fed is that it seems to recruit its personal from the same old Harvard Good Boys Club. I can't recall an outsider ever getting into a meaningful position there. That in itself creates a interest felting that makes it incompatible with its independence.

But those problems are not resolved by introducing some kind of restrictive standard or by putting it under direct supervision of politicians (i.e. Audit the FED), that would just elevate the goat to the position of grounds caretaker.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#15    Corp

Corp

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 6,950 posts
  • Joined:19 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:04 PM

Solutions are needed, but returning to a system that can't support the economy in any way is no solution. Gold isn't some magically cure all and it can have many of the same problems paper money can. Just look at the Spanish Empire. They found huge amounts of gold and silver in Latin America and what happened? Massive inflation which caused their economy to tank. Trying to turn back the clock to some mythical golden age of America isn't the answer.

Maybe we should just go back to the bartar system. Now who has change for a goat? :P

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users