10 replies to this topic

[the L]

http://www.guardian....ntation-catalan


As Spain's government announced fresh austerity for next year on Thursday, the country was launched headlong into confrontation between central government and a Catalan parliament that pledged to hold a referendum on moves towards independence.


Whats next Galica and Basques?

[smurf0852]

the L, on 28 September 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

http://www.guardian....ntation-catalan


As Spain's government announced fresh austerity for next year on Thursday, the country was launched headlong into confrontation between central government and a Catalan parliament that pledged to hold a referendum on moves towards independence.


Whats next Galica and Basques?

if they want it and it is voted on they should have it it really is that simple.

[Hilander]

I have to agree if that's what they want.

[the L]

Hilander, on 28 September 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

I have to agree if that's what they want.

Yes but if they go out then Basques and Galica will ask same and whats left?
It would never happened imo. If ETA didnt get what they want neither Barcelona will.

[keithisco]

The Spanish Constitution is unequivical on this point. Only the National Government can call a referendum in an autonomous region.

I think it is a bit silly of Catalonia to go down this path because no regard is given to the enormous costs of setting up Independent Instituions that would be needed to support such a move. Everything from issuing new Identity Cards, new Passports, setting up national Pension schemes, and Social Security services, Tax Collection agencies (Business and Personal), to the issuance of new coinage - the list goes on. With Catalonia being the most indebted of Spain´s regions, and its downgrade to "Junk Status" then I would like to know just how they intend to fund it.

I doubt very much that the regional Politicians have given this due regard, and certainly they have not told their electorate that this move would lead to far greater austerity in the short to medium term.

[questionmark]

the L, on 28 September 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

http://www.guardian....ntation-catalan


As Spain's government announced fresh austerity for next year on Thursday, the country was launched headlong into confrontation between central government and a Catalan parliament that pledged to hold a referendum on moves towards independence.


Whats next Galica and Basques?

Doubtfully. You don't separate from the purse.

[Mr Right Wing]

keithisco, on 29 September 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

The Spanish Constitution is unequivical on this point. Only the National Government can call a referendum in an autonomous region.

I think it is a bit silly of Catalonia to go down this path because no regard is given to the enormous costs of setting up Independent Instituions that would be needed to support such a move. Everything from issuing new Identity Cards, new Passports, setting up national Pension schemes, and Social Security services, Tax Collection agencies (Business and Personal), to the issuance of new coinage - the list goes on. With Catalonia being the most indebted of Spain´s regions, and its downgrade to "Junk Status" then I would like to know just how they intend to fund it.

I doubt very much that the regional Politicians have given this due regard, and certainly they have not told their electorate that this move would lead to far greater austerity in the short to medium term.

As Catalonia is an economically important region of Spain it would be wise for them to declare independance.

As Spain has an unemployment rate of 25% independance will stop Catalonia being lumbered with a huge welfare bill in supporting the rest of Spain. This will mean taxes can come down and the region would then boom.

It would be like Aberdeen (Europes oil capital) dumping Scotland so more of their income becomes their own.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 29 September 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[keithisco]

Mr Right Wing, on 29 September 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

As Catalonia is an economically important region of Spain it would be wise for them to declare independance.

As Spain has an unemployment rate of 25% independance will stop Catalonia being lumbered with a huge welfare bill in supporting the rest of Spain. This will mean taxes can come down and the region would then boom.

It would be like Aberdeen (Europes oil capital) dumping Scotland so more of their income becomes their own.

Sorry... I am trying to understand exactly what you are saying.

catalonia unemployment rate is c23% - 54% are long term unemployed. Therefore Tax most certainly cannot come down because of the huge welfare bill that it would have to pay without support from central government. The wealthiest region is actually Madrid so you would recommend that they declare independence from Spain?

[Mr Right Wing]

keithisco, on 29 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Sorry... I am trying to understand exactly what you are saying.

catalonia unemployment rate is c23% - 54% are long term unemployed. Therefore Tax most certainly cannot come down because of the huge welfare bill that it would have to pay without support from central government. The wealthiest region is actually Madrid so you would recommend that they declare independence from Spain?

Sure every man for himself. Go Madrid!

[keithisco]

Mr Right Wing, on 30 September 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Sure every man for himself. Go Madrid!

... so you are proposing that every region in every nation becomes an individual, and Sovereign state.  This is simply Trolling on a big scale, because you have not considered any consequences, the inevitable wars and land grabs that this would involve, or indeed the consequences - please Mods, can we have a Troll emoticon??

[Avanter]

some topics about it:
catalonia has never been a state, a kingdom inthe previous 1000 years. Just a province. A province of France, or kingdom of Aragon, or just Spain. catalonia has provided governors, soldiers, scientific people to Spain always.
the problem of spain is that, since the XIX sicle, it has been the laboratory for new ways of war, or whatever, because France and UK dont want a strong nation so strategic located. and the governors can be easily corrupted to keep spain in a second class level.
to destroy Spain, you only need to leave us alone, as said a french general of Napoleon army. it is part of our character.
If i ll could do, I will declare my flat as a nation.
But, the problem is that if Cataluña become a nation, i will go there to kill them with my knife, or even a spoon. Because I have spent a lot of money in bridges, roads, salaries, buildings, etc, so, that region is also part of my private kingdom.
If the politcs thinks that the people will keep silent, they are confused.
I have 10 friends that live in Barcelona, and i do business there, so, I love this region. But i hate the politics, the governors that only look for the power, to be the kings of a piece of sand.
for the US people:do you imagine that california publish a law of "only spanish language", the schools only in spanish, to be public employee only if only speak in spanish, a law that if the people uses the english to entitle their business, or speak in english, to be punished?. the FBI expulsed of California, the CIA spyed by the californian poilice?
so, why not? California is part of the US only for lesz than 200 years, and the spanish people are the bigger part of citizens.
.Cataluña is part of Spain before 1492, so, more that 500 years.
the future is only a kingdom: europe, or the war. and the muslim know it very well.

sorry by my english, and by the ipad automatic corrector.