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Do atheists get a hard time?


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#256    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:24 PM

View Postseishin, on 24 October 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Well, that's exactly the point isn't it? It's illogical; however, Walker doesn't see it that way.

If I wanted attention  I wouldn't either..I would post up more illogical statements  like - children are born with full knowledge of  classical music and math....I kid..seriously just kidding.. :P .People will just naturally view it a different way  

Anyhoo.. I know it was your point, I was adding a bit more about different gods and their descriptions ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 24 October 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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#257    Ugly1

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostHasina, on 22 October 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

I don't believe in a God, I don't have 'faith' in things. I follow facts and deductions that make logical sense off of the established facts, if these deductions happen to turn out wrong based on new facts, then these deductions shall change as well.

While I understand what you are writing, it is hard for me to put into words any type of retort. So I will say. When the fact comes that you die, and you meet god, I hope that I find a new fact out in that god really forgives everyone, even the unfaithful and we can be in heaven together.


#258    Bling

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostUgly1, on 24 October 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

While I understand what you are writing, it is hard for me to put into words any type of retort. So I will say. When the fact comes that you die, and you meet god, I hope that I find a new fact out in that god really forgives everyone, even the unfaithful and we can be in heaven together.

The bible says the unbelievers will go to hell not heaven doesn't it?


#259    Hasina

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostUgly1, on 24 October 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:



While I understand what you are writing, it is hard for me to put into words any type of retort. So I will say. When the fact comes that you die, and you meet god, I hope that I find a new fact out in that god really forgives everyone, even the unfaithful and we can be in heaven together.
I will agree that me dying is a fact, but meeting god? Is there proof?

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#260    Bling

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

View PostHasina, on 24 October 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I will agree that me dying is a fact, but meeting god? Is there proof?

None whatsoever, but some refuse to acknowledge that!


#261    Supersquatch

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostSetton, on 24 October 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

A side note on religion in education: We have absolutely none of the issues you mention here. Perhaps you should look to how you manage your education system rather than pinning the blame on religion?

I am referring to the United States, not Britain. The Kansas State Department of Education, in 2005, approved the idea of teaching both evolution and intelligent design in science classes. According to npr.org, there are several states, for example Alabama, where evolution is not taught in high schools and universities. There are states that teach the criticisms of evolution, such as Kansas and Ohio. And others who teach Creationism along with evolution, including Kentucky.

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#262    Alienated Being

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

View PostSetton, on 24 October 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

As I said, anything that cannot be proven wrong is a valid possibility. I didn't say it's accepted. Don't worry, it's a common misconception that science is about proving things right. It's about proving other ideas wrong and narrowing down the list of possibilities.
I never said that you said that it was accepted - I am saying that to assume that any possibility could be an accepted possibility is nothing short of ludicrous.



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Given that it is incredibly rare that science proves anything beyond doubt, you still do not know this. As has been said, the correct expression would be that you think they are mistaken.
I suppose nobody can really know for sure, but at least science is attempting to find the answers, and is making the best effort in presenting the most realistic and logical ones.



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That is not the assertion anyone has made. Either you do not understand or are deliberately twisting it into something you can argue with.
Hence why I said, "If an individual WERE"... and I am not intentionally twisting the argument into something I can argue with at all.

Quote

The assertion that science makes is that unless we can disprove something, it must remain a possibility.
Science does not accept everything as a possibility. Using that logic, scientists could accept pink unicorns, or indigo-coloured elephants as being the cause of a certain unexplained event simply because anything is possible. I believe science narrows down the most probable, most rational of possibilities, and then goes from there. It is an endless cycle.



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1. No. Although actually we really don't have a good idea of how the planet formed. There's simply too little to study.
Actually, we do have a very firm understanding as to how planets have formed, and how they will continue to form. Gravity and geological processes are all very important factors in terms of how planets are formed, and scientists have a very firm understand of both from what has been observed.

Quote

3. Possibly. Would need more information on circumstances to say for sure.
And why is there that possibility that god did it, simply because no logical explanation can be found?


#263    Ugly1

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

I have only begun to read my New Testament for the first time through as of about 2-3 months ago so I am in no way a scholar. From what I have taken in from what I have read is that Jesus taught a message of love.

It is written that no man shall enter into heaven except by Jesus. I have read however that this can be interpreted by how you read the text, and if you read the text before that verse it can totally change the meaning of how you take that.

And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the
               gospel to the whole creation.
        16
               He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who
               does not believe will be condemned.

The condemnation applies only to people who have had he Gospel presented to them, so that they fully understand the ideas, and then they reject it anyway. If they have never heard it, they are not condemned. And if they don't understand it, they are not condemned.

I do not know if I am a good Christian, or a bad Christian in the Churches eyes personally. I am a sinner. When I say I am a sinner, I mean that in a true sense. I curse, lie, have a child from a woman who is not my wife, am covered in tattoos, and have even been a bit of a player in my past (Not Anymore).
However. When it comes to going to church, I do not see that as my way of getting into heaven. Jesus spoke words of love. Loving your neighbor as yourself is what I have taken from the New Testament that will get you into heaven. Tithing is great as it helps spread the gospel, and helps grow the church but not all churches deserve to grow in my opinion.  I think a lot of people think they are Atheist because they are only taking in the "Christian Message" that the Church teaches, and not the true Christian message that Jesus Christ preached.

Many Bible verses support the idea that love for others is sufficient to keep you out of Hell.
       Galatians 5:14 (RSV)
       For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your
       neighbor as yourself."

       Romans 13:8 (RSV)
       Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves
       his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

       Romans 13:10 (RSV)
       Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling
       of the law.

       James 2:8 (RSV)
       If you really fulfill the royal law, according to the scripture,
       "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well.

       Proverbs 10:12 (RSV)
       Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

       1 Peter 4:8 (RSV)
       Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love
       covers a multitude of sins.

I think what is lost in many churches today is the love your neighbor. In my opinion that is creating a lot of Atheists and also not spreading the true word of Jesus Christ which is what our Christian faith is based on.


#264    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:30 AM

View PostUgly1, on 25 October 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

I have only begun to read my New Testament for the first time through as of about 2-3 months ago so I am in no way a scholar. From what I have taken in from what I have read is that Jesus taught a message of love.


The condemnation applies only to people who have had he Gospel presented to them, so that they fully understand the ideas, and then they reject it anyway. If they have never heard it, they are not condemned. And if they don't understand it, they are not condemned.

I do not know if I am a good Christian, or a bad Christian in the Churches eyes personally. I am a sinner. When I say I am a sinner, I mean that in a true sense. I curse, lie, have a child from a woman who is not my wife, am covered in tattoos, and have even been a bit of a player in my past (Not Anymore).
However. When it comes to going to church, I do not see that as my way of getting into heaven. Jesus spoke words of love. Loving your neighbor as yourself is what I have taken from the New Testament that will get you into heaven. Tithing is great as it helps spread the gospel, and helps grow the church but not all churches deserve to grow in my opinion.  I think a lot of people think they are Atheist because they are only taking in the "Christian Message" that the Church teaches, and not the true Christian message that Jesus Christ preached.

Many Bible verses support the idea that love for others is sufficient to keep you out of Hell.
   Galatians 5:14 (RSV)
   For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your
   neighbor as yourself."

   Romans 13:8 (RSV)
   Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves
   his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

   Romans 13:10 (RSV)
   Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling
   of the law.

   James 2:8 (RSV)
   If you really fulfill the royal law, according to the scripture,
   "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well.

   Proverbs 10:12 (RSV)
   Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.

   1 Peter 4:8 (RSV)
   Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love
   covers a multitude of sins.


I think what is lost in many churches today is the love your neighbor. In my opinion that is creating a lot of Atheists and also not spreading the true word of Jesus Christ which is what our Christian faith is based on.

Here is your source of the info you just posted  --> http://www.internetc...nsgotohell.html

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 25 October 2012 - 08:32 AM.

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#265    ZaraKitty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:31 AM

"God is real! We should put prayer in the schools! BAN ABORTION!"
"..I don't believe in god."
"STOP FORCING YOUR BELIEFS ON ME!"

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#266    Setton

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 25 October 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I never said that you said that it was accepted - I am saying that to assume that any possibility could be an accepted possibility is nothing short of ludicrous.

I suppose nobody can really know for sure, but at least science is attempting to find the answers, and is making the best effort in presenting the most realistic and logical ones.

Hence why I said, "If an individual WERE"... and I am not intentionally twisting the argument into something I can argue with at all.

Science does not accept everything as a possibility. Using that logic, scientists could accept pink unicorns, or indigo-coloured elephants as being the cause of a certain unexplained event simply because anything is possible. I believe science narrows down the most probable, most rational of possibilities, and then goes from there. It is an endless cycle.

Look, you can deny reality till you're blue in the face but the fact is, that is how science works. Science disproves as many ideas as it can then uses Ockham's Razor to determine the currently accepted one(s). Sometimes it can't be narrowed down to one idea and that's when debates in science take place (plates vs. plumes for example)

Quote

Actually, we do have a very firm understanding as to how planets have formed, and how they will continue to form. Gravity and geological processes are all very important factors in terms of how planets are formed, and scientists have a very firm understand of both from what has been observed.

No. We don't. You may have a very dumbed down understanding of one of the theories from high school but the early Earth was so different to the one today that we really cannot say for sure what happened or how.

Geological processes are important but one of the favourite sayings of geologists is relevant here: The present is the key to the past. Essentially, much of what we know about the past Earth is due to observing the same processes today. However, in the Hadean, the Earth was so radically different to today (no liquid water, plate tectonics or solid landmasses to name just a few differences), that we do not have anything to help us understand. We don't even have any rocks that old so we know virtually nothing.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#267    Ugly1

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:20 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 25 October 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

Here is your source of the info you just posted  --> http://www.internetc...nsgotohell.html

Yes, a lot of the quotes came from there but not my personal experience. Not smart enough to figure out how to go back and edit to throw in that link. Also, I read the KJV of the bible, but it is very close to the verses quoted above.

By the way, what is your point by that post? I know the sources I looked at for a quick reference. Are you trying to make me lose credibility from doing a quick search online?

You seem to be in almost every Atheist thread that I've read Berri. Just remember that a million atheists patting you on the back, and encouraging you cannot do the same thing that 1 Jesus Christ can do.

You did not even try to talk about anything I discussed, but just tried to discredit me (How I took it) when I am telling people that they are not doomed even if they don't believe everything the church has told them. You are a sad, sad person.

Edited by Ugly1, 25 October 2012 - 11:22 AM.


#268    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:45 AM

View PostUgly1, on 25 October 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

By the way, what is your point by that post?

Ask a mod or the admin  why do we need to post sources from sites we copy parts of info from ?    I was being helpful.. Others might want to read that source...

Quote

Just remember that a million atheists patting you on the back

Wouldn't that hurt my back ?


Quote

You are a sad, sad person.   

Ack you're just saying that   lol  :P

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 25 October 2012 - 11:55 AM.

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#269    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

View Postranrod, on 18 October 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

I'm with you one this, but just want to point out that lack of proof is not proof of non-existence.  Scientifically speaking, you can only make conclusions based on proof.  No conclusions can be made without proof.  Lack of proof = lack of conclusions.  The issue of god is one science has to remain silent about since we can't establish proof one way or the other.  Unlikely we will ever be able to make conclusions about godly things.  A scientist can still have a belief though, such as the belief there is intelligent life somewhere else in the universe (as I do).  There's no proof of it one way or the other, but I choose to believe it.  One difference is that with ET, we can establish a statistical probability of it, and given the vastness of the universe it is very likely, but there's a difference between probability and reality.  It's still a belief.  Godly things is one step further since we can't even establish a probability for it, but how many things in our history have we discovered that we had no proof or probabilities of?  Many.

Yes i too agree with you, partially... I strongly believe in outworldly civilizations like you do, but god is something... like a figment of imagination.. I am not crazy to buy in on talking burning bushes, faces in the sky, resurrections, making miracles as fast as water flows... sorry too ridiculous to me, but if any of this was proven in any weird way would change much but i highly doubt it..because all this wrote down a primitive man who  had limited susception by hes or hers knowledge...

2 things stand out in bible;

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke

Well, when I was younger, I lied all the time, because once you understand the power of lying, it's really like magic because you transform reality for people.
Louis C. K.

:innocent:

Edited by Nuke_em, 25 October 2012 - 11:54 AM.

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#270    Alienated Being

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

View PostSetton, on 25 October 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

No. We don't. You may have a very dumbed down understanding of one of the theories from high school but the early Earth was so different to the one today that we really cannot say for sure what happened or how.
Actually, no; it is more of a first year university level understanding of the various processes involved.

Quote

Geological processes are important but one of the favourite sayings of geologists is relevant here: The present is the key to the past. Essentially, much of what we know about the past Earth is due to observing the same processes today. However, in the Hadean, the Earth was so radically different to today (no liquid water, plate tectonics or solid landmasses to name just a few differences), that we do not have anything to help us understand. We don't even have any rocks that old so we know virtually nothing.
I find it interesting as to how you claim that we don't have an understanding as to how the Earth was formed, however in the very same post you assert that we know of what the Earth looked like during the Hadean. How do we know this? You really contradicted yourself in that post. How can we say for certain that the planet looked just as you described?

Edited by Alienated Being, 25 October 2012 - 01:17 PM.





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