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Five Evidences that Jesus Could Have Survived


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#1    Ben Masada

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:10 PM

FIVE EVIDENCES THAT JESUS COULD HAVE SURVIVED THE CROSS

Before presenting here the following evidences that Jesus could have survived the cross, I take it as my duty to clarify my point, that I am not affirming that Jesus survived the cross, but that he could have. In other words, to say that Jesus died on the cross is not 100% safe to assert. It is just one more item of faith, with a high probability to have been true.

1 - According to Josephus, a famous Jewish Historian of the First Century, "It was not uncommon for crucifieds to linger on their crosses, passing out and back up to three or four days till death would eventually catch up on them." Jesus was removed from his cross after only a few hours.

2 - According to Mark 15:44, when Joseph of Arimathea went to Pilate for permission to remove Jesus from the cross for burial, Pilate, an expert in the crufixion of thousands of Jews, "Was deeply concerned and surprised that Jesus had died so soon. Therefore, he summoned the Centurion to verify." Considering that the Roman soldiers were highly
corrupt and that Joseph was quite a rich man in Israel, God knows the size of a possible bribe which affected the reply of the Centurion to Pilate that Jesus was already dead.

3 - According to Mark 16:1, when that Sabbath was over, which in Israel is at sunset, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to Jesus' tomb to anoint his body, when they were surprised to see that the tombstone was removed and the tomb was empty. According to Mat. 28:2, there was an earthquake, an angel came down, removed the tombstone and became equally surprised that the tomb was indeed empty. Never mind the three days and three nights of Mat. 12:40. That supposed-to-be prophecy never got fulfilled.

4 - According to John 19:39, Nicodemus, another rich man in Israel, had brought along about 100 pounds of medication to help Joseph take care of Jesus. It is highly possible that Joseph laid Jesus in his walk-in tomb for an hour or two to prevent unnecessary onlookers and returned later with his men to remove Jesus unto another safer place to mend his wounds.

5 - According to Acts 1:3, Luke said that, "After his suffering, aka, passion, Jesus appeared to his disciples for 40 days with many convincing proofs that he was alive, in flesh and bone, eating and driking with his disciples to prove he was not dead. (Luke 24:42,43) Focus that Luke said that Jesus appeared after his suffering (passion) and not after his death. And, if we consider resurrection here, the evidence goes way out of proportion because, to eat and drink after resurretion just as one used to before death, brings down the whole concept of the Pauline gospel of spiritual body. (I Cor. 15:35-44)

Ben


#2    markdohle

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:22 PM

When  the Romans crucified someone they were not taken down until they were dead.  Legs were broken, or in Jesus case he was pierced by a spear.  In any case, after being scourged, crowned with thorns, nailed through the wrist and feet on the cross, I doubt even if he lived he would be able to appear before the apostles, or even walk or use his hands.  He rose from the dead, that is the whole point of the New Testament, a document that tells us of the early experiences with the risen Lord.  

Peace
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#3    StarMountainKid

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:58 PM

I agree with all your points, Ben. I think your point #5 is the best proof that Jesus did not die on the cross.

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#4    Alienated Being

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

Give me five pieces of evidence to prove he existed.


#5    Ashotep

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:13 PM

I guess that's possible.  How much of this stuff was written at the time of the crucifixion or hundreds of years afterward?  Stories passed down by mouth often change, embellished upon.

Edited by Hilander, 03 October 2012 - 11:13 PM.


#6    Dr. D

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:47 AM

You omit the Nag Hammadi Scrolls where in The Second Treatise of the Great Seth it has Jesus saying,

"And the plan which they devised about me to release their Error and their senselessness - I did not succumb to them as they had planned. But I was not afflicted at all. Those who were there punished me. And I did not die in reality but in appearance, lest I be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I <suffered> according to their sight and thought, in order that they may never find any word to speak about them. For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. For their Ennoias did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance."


#7    Artaxerxes

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:30 AM

"or in Jesus case he was pierced by a spear." - Mark

Which pierced his pericardium thus allowing the fluid around his heart to leak out which allowed his heart to start beating again. When they cut him down from the cross Jesus flopped on the ground and the resulting whomp was enough to allow his heart to slowly start beating again.   I suspect he was in a deep coma.   I doubt anyone at that time had ever seen anyone crucified who lived to talk about it so I suspect that is why they thought he was a god.  People of the first century were a very superstitious people.  

I have studied in depth both the New Testament and Near Death Experiences and a lot of Jesus's stories of "the Kingdom of Heaven" are very similar to what many near death experiences report their sojourn in heaven taught them.  

I believe Christianity at it's very heart is a near death experience religion and the New Testament is a highly embellished and out of sequence near death experience story.  It has been added onto and embellished but when I read certain parts of it, especially Jesus's stories about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, it bears a striking resemblance to what I have read in many NDE descriptions.


#8    seishin

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:09 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 03 October 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Give me five pieces of evidence to prove he existed.

That too!

Here here!

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#9    Dr. D

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 11:02 PM

View Postseishin, on 04 October 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

That too!

Here here!

I lean toward your argument but we have to admit that there is historical evidence for Pontius Pilate, Joseph of Arimathea and the disciples James and John.  As circumstancial as it may be, they were still people reportedly associated to one degree or another with a man called Jesus.


#10    seishin

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostDr. D, on 04 October 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

I lean toward your argument but we have to admit that there is historical evidence for Pontius Pilate, Joseph of Arimathea and the disciples James and John.  As circumstancial as it may be, they were still people reportedly associated to one degree or another with a man called Jesus.

And I'm going to have to agree with that too. Curse you for making me be open minded!! :rofl:

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#11    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 05:44 PM

Well there has to be an explanation about this. I don't believe the "Son of God" nonsense, though think that in all probability a man named Jesus did exist. The five points presented here seem quite reasonable and believable.

I have always wondered what evidence was available to the emperor Julian the "Apostate", for him to state that Christians were atheists, and to re-open, until his death, the pagan temples. I think there was clear evidence, long destroyed by Christians, that Jesus was simply a mortal man. Perhaps after recovering from his wounds, this Jesus went into hiding in Egypt, again. And further thoughts on that probably belong on a different topic...


#12    Mnemonix

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:25 PM

It's an interesting read. But I doubt we'll really know the truth unless someone time traveled to witness the event and document it.


#13    TheBanana

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

i guess that could have been true, maybe he did survive, especially seeing as he was supposed to have came back to life and people saw him, whos to say he didnt just go back to heaven or die or anything after that, but instead moved far away and lived a long life.

but it happened so long ago he certainly isnt alive now.

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#14    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

Jesus died of suffocation.. he could not survive that..

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#15    Dying Seraph

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:11 AM

There is also texts out there that convey that Jesus was NEVER crucified. That someone else in Jesus' place was crucified and that Jesus was laughing like a mad man at the whole scene. Wish I could recall in where this story was. <_<

SINcerely,
:devil:

Edit: Dr. D provided it already. :nw:

Edited by Dying Seraph, 06 October 2012 - 12:21 AM.

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