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Religion and sprituality


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#1    markdohle

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:57 PM

For me religion and spirituality go together.  Religion is the body, spirituality the inner life.  I have stayed in my faith, I am Roman Catholic because as a very young lad I studied my faith and it doctrines and history.  I am also aware of how human and frail Christian are as well....I am of course including myself in the grouping.

I have also for most of my life developed a deep and trusting relationship with the Lord of life Jesus Christ and have felt grace and healing slowly grow in my life.  The sacraments and the writings of the saints and doctors of the church are a rich combination of writings.  Of course the Scriptures are essential.

Without a deep loving faith in God and a seeking of slowly understanding Jesus message, then religion becomes a hollow shell, something that can become evil and destructive.  So I have no problem with religion, any religion, since I know that all of us who are on that journey grow at our own pace and have our own inner demons to deal with.  Some mature early, others late in life.  Then perhaps many don't have a relationship with God, it is just something they do on Sundays, though who they are and their number I don't know, nor try to, nor judge. I have my own struggles with seeking to deepen my walk with the Lord and to also love others as Jesus says we should...which takes a death to self on a regular basis.

People are wounded and can hurt each other, so it can be difficult to stay in a community, but I feel that is where growth is and also were we can learn to speak out and make a difference. I am not talking about cults of course, which are out there and from what I have read it is really quite easy for just about anyone to fall into one.   Often people leave their parent faith and are so angry at it that they never actually get free from their past and allow it to poison their lives.  Better to study, learn about the core of ones faith and then decide to leave or stay, that way there is a clean cut.

I know people of many paths, all who combine both their religion with their inner life and live balanced and wholesome lives and grow in compassion of others....they just don't get into power position for the most part, so they are often overlooked and forgotten.

Religion, secularism, theism or atheism is not the problem, the factor that links all of these paths are humans, we are the problem.  Of course there is no hope, people will continue to speak in straw man language, as if they know the truth, when in fact it only adds to the problems of our human situation.  Original sin in my faith points to this problem.  It is not personal sin, but we are born into a broken world and it seems to get worse in many ways as each generation passes….though there are some good things that also come up.  I also talk in straw men language from time to time, so I am not in anyway placing myself above the crowd here, no, I am in the front row, I am also part of the problem and have tried all of my life to not be.....I will be dead a year before that happens.

Edited by markdohle, 03 October 2012 - 11:00 PM.


#2    Beany

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:22 AM

Not all humans are a problem, some are or provide answers, some heal, provide comfort, provide a listening ear without judgment, care for our elders, help feed the poor, clean up the creeks, the list goes on. I don't see the world as broken. It's not perfect, but there isn't any where else I'd rather be, with friends, kids, grandkids, a garden, a job I love, and best of all, the ever-present opportunities to create a life that feeds my soul.


#3    taniwha

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

"...He aha te mea nui o te ao..."  "...What is the most important thing in the world?"
"...He tangata, he tangata, he tangata"  " ...It is people, people, people"

Ancestral proverb of the Maori ... Aotearoa (NZ)

" Where does yesterday go to? Where does tomorrow come from? Is not the universe the proginetor of space and time? "
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#4    Beany

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

One of the reasons I left the church as a teenager was because of their dismal view of humanity, i.e. we're all born sinners, life is all about penance, we're all doomed to hell unless... It was pretty one-sided. Now my starting premise is that life of this planet is the greatest gift we could be given, and it's up to each of us to find ways to celebrate & honor the gift.


#5    White Crane Feather

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:33 PM

View PostBeany, on 04 October 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

One of the reasons I left the church as a teenager was because of their dismal view of humanity, i.e. we're all born sinners, life is all about penance, we're all doomed to hell unless... It was pretty one-sided. Now my starting premise is that life of this planet is the greatest gift we could be given, and it's up to each of us to find ways to celebrate & honor the gift.
Yes...... This is the universe of the relative. We are here to relate to one another. Adopting a sort of zen attitude when interacting with people especially loved ones is amazingly statisfying.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#6    markdohle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

View PostBeany, on 04 October 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Not all humans are a problem, some are or provide answers, some heal, provide comfort, provide a listening ear without judgment, care for our elders, help feed the poor, clean up the creeks, the list goes on. I don't see the world as broken. It's not perfect, but there isn't any where else I'd rather be, with friends, kids, grandkids, a garden, a job I love, and best of all, the ever-present opportunities to create a life that feeds my soul.

You are wise, there is much good in life, yet, I believe that we as a species seek peace and never seem able to find it.   A few find it inwardly, walking a path leading to deeper healing and love, for many life is so difficult, people so warlike and cruel that the cycle is hard to break, or impossible to.  I do believe there is always hope and my faith shows that.  We are all responsible for how the world is, all we can do is seek to change things one person at a time....governments seem to not be able to do a very good job.

Peace
mark

View Postmelissamendoza, on 04 October 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Nice thinking about Religion and spirituality this is certainly something for me to think about. :)

Thank you.

peace
mark


#7    markdohle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostBeany, on 04 October 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

One of the reasons I left the church as a teenager was because of their dismal view of humanity, i.e. we're all born sinners, life is all about penance, we're all doomed to hell unless... It was pretty one-sided. Now my starting premise is that life of this planet is the greatest gift we could be given, and it's up to each of us to find ways to celebrate & honor the gift.

I think we are born  into a world wherein we find ourselves in societies that are in fact fractured and inhumane.  These realities flow from the human heart.  Yet we seek the good as well, so I don't agree with your churches stance.  Yes, life here is a great, wondrous gift and we should not squander the gifts given to us.

peace
mark

View PostSeeker79, on 04 October 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Yes...... This is the universe of the relative. We are here to relate to one another. Adopting a sort of zen attitude when interacting with people especially loved ones is amazingly statisfying.

Nice, will ponder this.

peace
mark


#8    M0TH

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:33 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 03 October 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

For me religion and spirituality go together.  Religion is the body, spirituality the inner life.  I have stayed in my faith, I am Roman Catholic because as a very young lad I studied my faith and it doctrines and history.  I am also aware of how human and frail Christian are as well....I am of course including myself in the grouping.

I have also for most of my life developed a deep and trusting relationship with the Lord of life Jesus Christ and have felt grace and healing slowly grow in my life.  The sacraments and the writings of the saints and doctors of the church are a rich combination of writings.  Of course the Scriptures are essential.

Without a deep loving faith in God and a seeking of slowly understanding Jesus message, then religion becomes a hollow shell, something that can become evil and destructive.  So I have no problem with religion, any religion, since I know that all of us who are on that journey grow at our own pace and have our own inner demons to deal with.  Some mature early, others late in life.  Then perhaps many don't have a relationship with God, it is just something they do on Sundays, though who they are and their number I don't know, nor try to, nor judge. I have my own struggles with seeking to deepen my walk with the Lord and to also love others as Jesus says we should...which takes a death to self on a regular basis.

People are wounded and can hurt each other, so it can be difficult to stay in a community, but I feel that is where growth is and also were we can learn to speak out and make a difference. I am not talking about cults of course, which are out there and from what I have read it is really quite easy for just about anyone to fall into one.   Often people leave their parent faith and are so angry at it that they never actually get free from their past and allow it to poison their lives.  Better to study, learn about the core of ones faith and then decide to leave or stay, that way there is a clean cut.

I know people of many paths, all who combine both their religion with their inner life and live balanced and wholesome lives and grow in compassion of others....they just don't get into power position for the most part, so they are often overlooked and forgotten.

Religion, secularism, theism or atheism is not the problem, the factor that links all of these paths are humans, we are the problem.  Of course there is no hope, people will continue to speak in straw man language, as if they know the truth, when in fact it only adds to the problems of our human situation.  Original sin in my faith points to this problem.  It is not personal sin, but we are born into a broken world and it seems to get worse in many ways as each generation passes….though there are some good things that also come up.  I also talk in straw men language from time to time, so I am not in anyway placing myself above the crowd here, no, I am in the front row, I am also part of the problem and have tried all of my life to not be.....I will be dead a year before that happens.

love this... :wub: ..especially the bold... so true


#9    Beany

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:00 PM

I can only speak for myself. I have found peace, & happiness, I know others who have, and some who haven't. As for original sing, it's simply a belief or perspective, not a fact. I substituted a belief about life being a gift for the idea of original sin. I refuse to adopt a negative attitude or belief about my fellow human beings, and I think the concept of original sin encourages that kind of thinking, so I think in terms of Original Blessing. I know people are suffering, both physically, psychically, spiritually, and emotionally, but I also know they can, with help, work their way through and come out the other side, and that suffering is usually a temporary state dependent on factors that can & do change all the time. And while people are suffering, it is an opportunity for those of us who aren't to reach out and provide support that might make a difficult time a little easier. I've often wondered if one of the purposes of suffering, to give others an opportunity to practice agape, compassion, generosity, etc.


#10    White Crane Feather

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:30 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 04 October 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:


Nice, will ponder this.

peace
mark
Yes.. Enjoy every kiss, hug, and smike in a complete gratuitous state of mind focused on this one moment.... Especially with the little ones or a lover. How much greater can life be than those moments. They are necessarily fleeting, But you can hold onto them forever.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#11    markdohle

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:20 PM

View PostBeany, on 04 October 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

I can only speak for myself. I have found peace, & happiness, I know others who have, and some who haven't. As for original sing, it's simply a belief or perspective, not a fact. I substituted a belief about life being a gift for the idea of original sin. I refuse to adopt a negative attitude or belief about my fellow human beings, and I think the concept of original sin encourages that kind of thinking, so I think in terms of Original Blessing. I know people are suffering, both physically, psychically, spiritually, and emotionally, but I also know they can, with help, work their way through and come out the other side, and that suffering is usually a temporary state dependent on factors that can & do change all the time. And while people are suffering, it is an opportunity for those of us who aren't to reach out and provide support that might make a difficult time a little easier. I've often wondered if one of the purposes of suffering, to give others an opportunity to practice agape, compassion, generosity, etc.

Words are used in different way my friend, different nuances.  I don't disagree with you.  The truth sets us free and I think people who have you in their lives are lucky indeed.  I was not raised to look down on others or to hate etc., so the word sin, or even original sin will make a different impact for you.  Can't be helped......so happy you are here.

Peace
Mark

View PostSeeker79, on 04 October 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Yes.. Enjoy every kiss, hug, and smike in a complete gratuitous state of mind focused on this one moment.... Especially with the little ones or a lover. How much greater can life be than those moments. They are necessarily fleeting, But you can hold onto them forever.

As I age, I see how fleeting life is, so yes I am learning to cherish each moment ;-).

Peace
mark

View Posttaniwha, on 04 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

"...He aha te mea nui o te ao..."  "...What is the most important thing in the world?"
"...He tangata, he tangata, he tangata"  " ...It is people, people, people"

Ancestral proverb of the Maori ... Aotearoa (NZ)

Love this, thanks for sharing.

peace
mark


#12    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 04:50 AM

Religion versus spirituality?? In more ways than one, religion try to tightly hold on to the past. One part of spirituality is the hope of being removed from this material plane of existence. Another point for spirituality is being in the now, accepting one's realtime story, dealing with it, instead of daydreaming and pretending that life on earth is always hunky-dory...sugarcoating the hardships of life instead of using the bad to get closer to the truth of one's existence and God(?).

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