47 replies to this topic

[Idano]

What is your definition of "Good", it can vary greatly...?  What would a good god look like to you?

[libstaK]

Rlyeh, on 06 October 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

No, some gnostic sects view the creator or demiurge as a malevolent entity, even asserting this is the God of the Bible. They still usually believe in a good god however.

Purplos, on 06 October 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'm not a christian and certainly not a biblical scholar.... but doesn't the bible even say that god is the creator of ALL things, seen and unseen. Why would he be only good then? It's impossible.

I don't think any god can be personified.

These two provide the closest insights into the problem of any man judging whether God is "Good" by our own standards.

As Purplos particularly points out "the creator of ALL things, seen and unseen.  What we don't see could have a huge impact on the issue of balance between free will and fate.  We are severely limited in our view of what is good by only seeing time in a linear fashion just to start.

Then there is the fact that our souls are eternal, what is "good" for our souls' evolution may not look so pretty in the material world - and in our limited 5 sense linear,  myopic view (by comparison of all there is to know, seen and unseen) we cannot know enough to answer the question at all it seems.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Seeker79, on 07 October 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

When your world is flooded happened to my sister in 95, and quite a few Japanese last year.

If you read the Bible, they were not talking about a local flood. God did, in fact, flood the entire world and gave a reason for it, which I would argue makes him not good. I am not really understanding why you are fighting against me about this...It is as if you are trying to make an argument for why God is good...

Edited by HuttonEtAl, 07 October 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Beany, on 07 October 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

On the other hand, I don't believe any of them were God's work, not do I believe the story of Sodom & Gomorrah is a historical account. BTW, there was no world wide flood. The Chinese texts from that time that make no mention of a flood of any kind in China; at the time China had expanded borders which covered far more geography than it currently does.

I know this...

[wanderer_]

You need to realize, God created all religions. Sure, he may not be called the same thing, but trust me, you can find strikingly similar elements in almost any religion. I think you might not like the idea of love in general, and you need to examine that further. Because it seems like it's not the bible you're mad at, but something else. Just examine your beliefs. If you don't change them, fine. But at least find a good reason for doing so, so you can actually defend your beliefs. Because right now all I hear is hate.

[CommunitarianKevin]

wanderer_, on 07 October 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

You need to realize, God created all religions. Sure, he may not be called the same thing, but trust me, you can find strikingly similar elements in almost any religion. I think you might not like the idea of love in general, and you need to examine that further. Because it seems like it's not the bible you're mad at, but something else. Just examine your beliefs. If you don't change them, fine. But at least find a good reason for doing so, so you can actually defend your beliefs. Because right now all I hear is hate.

God created all religions because they are similar? It is interesting you look at the similarities and not the differences. Have you ever considered WHY they are religion? Have you ever looked into anthropology? Is it possible all religions are the same because of an experience with something other than God(s)? Is it possible they were aliens encounters that people assume were gods? Just some things to think about because your claim is pretty bold.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

wanderer_, on 07 October 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

You need to realize, God created all religions. Sure, he may not be called the same thing, but trust me, you can find strikingly similar elements in almost any religion. I think you might not like the idea of love in general, and you need to examine that further. Because it seems like it's not the bible you're mad at, but something else. Just examine your beliefs. If you don't change them, fine. But at least find a good reason for doing so, so you can actually defend your beliefs. Because right now all I hear is hate.

Hmm, my God actually created your biblical, local tribal god Jehovah. Newcomers, pfff

[wanderer_]

You guys don't have to agree with me. I do firmly believe this, and yes I've explored other options.
There are differences in religions, of course. They are still each their own respective paths--but to the same ultimate reality of things. And to get to the ultimate truth of reality, you need to look at the similarities.

Before people even had concepts of aliens, there was religion. Think about that.

[CommunitarianKevin]

wanderer_, on 07 October 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

You guys don't have to agree with me. I do firmly believe this, and yes I've explored other options.
There are differences in religions, of course. They are still each their own respective paths--but to the same ultimate reality of things. And to get to the ultimate truth of reality, you need to look at the similarities.

Before people even had concepts of aliens, there was religion. Think about that.

But are there reason that are not supernatural that could account for the similarities?

[wanderer_]

HuttonEtAl, on 07 October 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

But are there reason that are not supernatural that could account for the similarities?

I think supernatural is a word that people use to write off the very thing I'm talking about. Yes, if you look for things that will discredit what I'm saying, you will absolutely find them. If you look for anything, you'll find it if you try hard enough. I can see that no matter what I say, you're going to hold firm to your beliefs. What do you find so unappealing about believing? I encourage you to do some open-minded exploring, even if just to find out exactly why you believe what you do.

[CommunitarianKevin]

wanderer_, on 07 October 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think supernatural is a word that people use to write off the very thing I'm talking about. Yes, if you look for things that will discredit what I'm saying, you will absolutely find them. If you look for anything, you'll find it if you try hard enough. I can see that no matter what I say, you're going to hold firm to your beliefs. What do you find so unappealing about believing? I encourage you to do some open-minded exploring, even if just to find out exactly why you believe what you do.

You should look at the link in my sig...
It's not that I write it off, it's that there are perfectly natural explanations. I leave the supernatural in the realm things that cannot be explained by natural causes. The cause of the Big Bang may be a reason to invoke the supernatural, but I do not think we can know either way...that is why I am not a non-believer but I am certainly not a believer.

[wanderer_]

HuttonEtAl, on 07 October 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

You should look at the link in my sig...
It's not that I write it off, it's that there are perfectly natural explanations. I leave the supernatural in the realm things that cannot be explained by natural causes. The cause of the Big Bang may be a reason to invoke the supernatural, but I do not think we can know either way...that is why I am not a non-believer but I am certainly not a believer.

Ah, and that is where we differ. I am a believer to the very depths of my core. I see where you are coming from, and I really don't mean to imply that there aren't obvious explanations to some things. But I think that at the root of the obvious explanations, "supernatural" explanations are the true causes.

Do you believe in energy? Positive and negative, and its effects on mankind? I suppose you could call that "supernatural," but science is just now catching up, to things that people knew to be true far before we thought possible. It was once thought that meditation doesn't have any benefits by the scientific community, but there is actually substantial research being done that is proving this wrong. It was because of science that we denied it, and now it is because of science we are realizing its true benefits. This is just one example.

[CommunitarianKevin]

wanderer_, on 07 October 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ah, and that is where we differ. I am a believer to the very depths of my core. I see where you are coming from, and I really don't mean to imply that there aren't obvious explanations to some things. But I think that at the root of the obvious explanations, "supernatural" explanations are the true causes.

Do you believe in energy? Positive and negative, and its effects on mankind? I suppose you could call that "supernatural," but science is just now catching up, to things that people knew to be true far before we thought possible. It was once thought that meditation doesn't have any benefits by the scientific community, but there is actually substantial research being done that is proving this wrong. It was because of science that we denied it, and now it is because of science we are realizing its true benefits. This is just one example.

I do not believe in it but I have not looked into it much. I think my wife tends to. She believes in "healing touch." She is a nurse and wants to become certified in healing touch.

[Seeker79]

HuttonEtAl, on 07 October 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

If you read the Bible, they were not talking about a local flood. God did, in fact, flood the entire world and gave a reason for it, which I would argue makes him not good. I am not really understanding why you are fighting against me about this...It is as if you are trying to make an argument for why God is good...

Is that a fact?

I'm not fighting you on anything other than that the world was flooded, and that god was responsible. I do not accept abrahamic mythology as literal truth, nor their definition of god. this was my original point.

The abrahamic traditions is the ultimate straw man for atheists.

Edited by Seeker79, 07 October 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[CommunitarianKevin]

Seeker79, on 07 October 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Is that a fact?

I'm not fighting you on anything other than that the world was flooded, and that god was responsible. I do not accept abrahamic mythology as literal truth, nor their definition of god. this was my original point.

The abrahamic traditions is the ultimate straw man for atheists.

Okay...I guess I should clarify the Abrahamic faiths...I mean is that not what the vast majority of believers here are? If you go by the Abrahamic faiths, God is not good. The title of the thread "God" kind of implied the Abrahamic God...