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Yes! (God is faithful)


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#16    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:01 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 07 October 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

For a group to surive there has to be some boundary, saying beyond this line you become something else, or belong to another group.  Besides we tend to fragment, people seldom agree, so something needs to be put in place to implement some conformity.  That does not in any way dictate life, each person is responsible for the depth of his understanding of his faith or he can be spoon fed.  Cultrual faith is ok as long as the society is not fragmented like ours.  Today, we all need to understand where we come from and what we believe.

Your take on history is not correct.  Rome fell from within, it was Christian Monastaries that kept knowledge going for centuries after Rome ceased to be a world power.  Towns grew up around Monastaries, farming was developed by monks.  Hospitals were created as well as higher centers of learning. There was also great art. That is not saying that there were no serious problems...there were on all levels, but that is the way things are in this world, should not be a surprise.

Also the Jews and Christian did not borrow from pagan myths.  Most scholars of today reject that kind of thinking, though it is still popular in our world today.

We all follow something, a group, a philosophy or ideology, each has boundaries, these do not limit life but actually allow for depth to be developed.  The Christian faith has a long  history, a good one, a checkered one as well, there is great wisdom within it and the gospel of Jesus Christ is preached, if not always followed, which does not surprise me....I know what is within me, I know what I am capable of, I know I am a sinner and in need of grace, which is the Love of Jesus Christ freely given.  That goes for all I believe and for all institutions.

peace
mark

I did not mention the fall Rome in my post, you have added this as smoke and mirrors. Clearly I was talking about the old religions, that were most certainly destroyed.
You say "Besides we tend to fragment, people seldom agree, so something needs to be put in place to implement some conformity" This is a defence of the Inquisition? and to what degreee of control can happen before an empire becomes "evil"? Perhaps your amount of control is okay for you to be happy with, yet I would say you certainly had far too much control in the past, and still exert unwanted control in areas such as birth control, or shocking iressponsible lack of in case of Catholics.

Christianity is a heresy of Judaism. Judaism, a newcomer, has clearly borrowed heavily from it's neighbours. I will not bog down this thread with various details about this, except to draw attention to the Hymn of Aten, monotheism itself, the iconography of Isis and Horus, the cult of Antinuous and Mithraism. This is clearly not the thread to discuss these things, though you have made a statement, so I have replied.

I almost forgot. You also state "farming was developed by monks". How? what advances did they make? farming was already advanced before Christianity. There was already crop rotation and allowing fields to lie fallow for soil regeneration. Ancient Celts had a crude device that was similar to a combine harvester, with tines at wheat head hight to cut them off and let them drop into a box. And before Christianity there were hospitals, schools, universities, theatres, gymnasia, swimming baths, reasonably hygenic public toilets, public and free access to constantly running fresh water, fire brigades, police, law, libraries,and of course great art, most of which was deliberately destroyed by Christian prudes and boneheaded iconoclasts. Hmm, I'm sounding like "The Life of Brian" :D

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 08 October 2012 - 08:17 AM.


#17    markdohle

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:03 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 08 October 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

I did not mention the fall Rome in my post, you have added this as smoke and mirrors. Clearly I was talking about the old religions, that were most certainly destroyed.

You say "Besides we tend to fragment, people seldom agree, so something needs to be put in place to implement some conformity" This is a defence of the Inquisition? and to what degreee of control can happen before an empire becomes "evil"? Perhaps your amount of control is okay for you to be happy with, yet I would say you certainly had far too much control in the past, and still exert unwanted control in areas such as birth control, or shocking iressponsible lack of in case of Catholics.

Christianity is a heresy of Judaism. Judaism, a newcomer, has clearly borrowed heavily from it's neighbours. I will not bog down this thread with various details about this, except to draw attention to the Hymn of Aten, monotheism itself, the iconography of Isis and Horus, the cult of Antinuous and Mithraism. This is clearly not the thread to discuss these things, though you have made a statement, so I have replied.

I almost forgot. You also state "farming was developed by monks". How? what advances did they make? farming was already advanced before Christianity. There was already crop rotation and allowing fields to lie fallow for soil regeneration. Ancient Celts had a crude device that was similar to a combine harvester, with tines at wheat head hight to cut them off and let them drop into a box. And before Christianity there were hospitals, schools, universities, theatres, gymnasia, swimming baths, reasonably hygenic public toilets, public and free access to constantly running fresh water, fire brigades, police, law, libraries,and of course great art, most of which was deliberately destroyed by Christian prudes and boneheaded iconoclasts. Hmm, I'm sounding like "The Life of Brian"


There are always different ways of interpreting history my friend.  There is no such thing as objectivity when dealing with the past...and yes our personal beliefs will dictate how we look at history etc.  I am of course like that.  I am a Christian, so yes I may not agree with you on your take on things, and I guess we can both back up what we believe by authors who write from both sides of the fence so to speak.  So let us agree to disagree ;-).   I wish you well on your journey in seeking truth.

C.Lewis, Chesterton, Peter Kreeft and other authors who are Christian are for me are enough.  I have studied some pagan religions and I doubt we are responsible for their demise I am sure they fought among themselves as well.  Christianity while being persecuted by the Roman authorities continued to grow, so in the 4th century it was made the state religion as a ploy to bring some order to a chaotic situation....I am not sure that was a good thing to happen, but it did and nothing can change that.  When a religion becomes too powerful politically, it attracts the wrong kind of leaders, when poor and little, perhaps the spiritual leaders are more inclined to be different and not into power.  

Again yes, any group, be it pagan, Christian or some philosophical group need guidelines and if someone goes over that they are not part of the group.  If the old pagan relilgions were that open (which I doubt), well perhaps that is why they died out, or one reason for them doing so.  As for your studies on the Christian faith, like I have said, there are authors that refute your claims.......If you wish to look upon my faith as a heresy of the Jewish religion, well that is ok, people think a lot worse about my faith.  :yes:

Peace
Mark




#18    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 08 October 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:



There are always different ways of interpreting history my friend.  There is no such thing as objectivity when dealing with the past...and yes our personal beliefs will dictate how we look at history etc.  I am of course like that.  I am a Christian, so yes I may not agree with you on your take on things, and I guess we can both back up what we believe by authors who write from both sides of the fence so to speak.  So let us agree to disagree ;-).   I wish you well on your journey in seeking truth.

C.Lewis, Chesterton, Peter Kreeft and other authors who are Christian are for me are enough.  I have studied some pagan religions and I doubt we are responsible for their demise I am sure they fought among themselves as well.  Christianity while being persecuted by the Roman authorities continued to grow, so in the 4th century it was made the state religion as a ploy to bring some order to a chaotic situation....I am not sure that was a good thing to happen, but it did and nothing can change that.  When a religion becomes too powerful politically, it attracts the wrong kind of leaders, when poor and little, perhaps the spiritual leaders are more inclined to be different and not into power.  

Again yes, any group, be it pagan, Christian or some philosophical group need guidelines and if someone goes over that they are not part of the group.  If the old pagan relilgions were that open (which I doubt), well perhaps that is why they died out, or one reason for them doing so.  As for your studies on the Christian faith, like I have said, there are authors that refute your claims.......If you wish to look upon my faith as a heresy of the Jewish religion, well that is ok, people think a lot worse about my faith.  :yes:

Peace
Mark



Christianity was directly responsible for the destruction of all the old religions through all of the middle East and Europe in it's entirety. How can you say that you doubt your religion was responsible for this. Who ordered that ALL pagan temples will close? Mickey Mouse perhaps. What religion launched religious crusades against Baltic people to force them, at point of sword to become Christian. Who killed an estimated 40,000 Saxons in order to force the survivors to be Christians. Who, in Norway in year 1,000, took as hostage all the relatives of the pagan Vikings living in Iceland, and threatened them with death if the pagans did not convert. There is much more, and you know this. Could any person in any European country from approximately year 1,000 to comparatively recent times ever say they were not a Christian and not be killed as a witch or heretic? Your religion wears the mask of saint, yet carries behind it's back a blood drenched sword. Religious wars, at least as far as I know in middle East and Europe, did not exist until advent of Christianty, and Islam. Certainly there were many wars, though about conquest, or even hurt feelings. Yet look at Christianity's record. The crusades, Palestine and Baltic. Various wars in Northern Europe during 16th Century, Spanish Armarda for instance and 80 years war in Netherlands and the appalling massacre of women and children at Antwerp. Then the horror of the Thirty Years war, then The Great Northern War. And inbetween all manner of horrors in Czech lands, Switzerland, various Germanic states. The barbaric bloodshed at Munster. The various massacres that took place in France against Cathars and Protestants, and on and on and on, and ALL in the name of Christ. This can not be said against the old religions, generally they lived and let live. Rant over :-*


#19    dougeaton

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:52 PM

You have issues and you believe in a dead religon.  Belief in god's is even more absurd than a belief in God.  In anycase I went to youtube and found this(), though it is only a video so I don't expect it to change anything.  Also in pagan religion.... did you not kill infants on a regular basis to your gods? Molock comes to mind.  Also  one tribal god fighting another on the battle field, with those who lose taken into slavery.  No ancient pagns were not gentle saints, but warlike, cruel and we are better off without them.  I think you need to look at your own so called history, which seems to be even worse than Christianities, which is very bad indeed.  Modern pagan myths are safe and cause no harm, your crap is a waste of time.

doug

Edited by dougeaton, 08 October 2012 - 12:53 PM.

If you must have  finale absolute answers, then become an  hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently.

#20    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:14 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 08 October 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

You have issues and you believe in a dead religon.  Belief in god's is even more absurd than a belief in God.  In anycase I went to youtube and found this(), though it is only a video so I don't expect it to change anything.  Also in pagan religion.... did you not kill infants on a regular basis to your gods? Molock comes to mind.  Also  one tribal god fighting another on the battle field, with those who lose taken into slavery.  No ancient pagns were not gentle saints, but warlike, cruel and we are better off without them.  I think you need to look at your own so called history, which seems to be even worse than Christianities, which is very bad indeed.  Modern pagan myths are safe and cause no harm, your crap is a waste of time.

doug

Who are you to insult me or anybody. I do not have "issues", and in my previous post were a list of verifiable historical events. You write as if all pagans are one religion and all are responsible for the wrong doing of others, ridiculous. And precisely what is my "crap"? what is my religion? What is your real purpose here? you sound like typical troll that has polluted youtube with foul mouthed rants. And for "agnostic" you certainly like defending Christianity. You give yourself away, I saw all this nonsense many times over the years. You lag behind and I certainly don't slow down for you. Byeee

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 08 October 2012 - 03:32 PM.





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