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William Lane Craig on the Historical Jesus -


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#16    Rlyeh

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 08 October 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Probably right, like I said, I do lean towards theism, but have never been able to make the jump....perhaps one day.  If I do, William Craig will be one of the reasons.  To bad we don't have atheist that can do as good as him.
We've got plenty of atheists who make baseless assertions, while they are frowned upon you seem to be more interested in praising theists who do it.

Edited by Rlyeh, 08 October 2012 - 04:04 PM.


#17    Odin11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

View Postdougeaton, on 08 October 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Well I disagree, he is a good thinker.  Dawkins was afraid to debate him, he did and lost.....you are right to fear him, though you mask it with contempt.

It’s next to impossible to win a debate with someone who debates like Craig. He uses a debating technique called Gish Gallop, which drowns the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. Dawkins didn’t lose, he just did not have enough time to answer all of Craig’s BS and lies. People, like Dawkins, don’t debate him because he’s a joke to them, not because they fear him (but keep telling yourself that, maybe if you say it enough it will come true). Craig is only trying to cash in on their names.

Edited by Odin11, 08 October 2012 - 07:20 PM.

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire

Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing "Does not!" ~Author Unknown

#18    markdohle

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 08 October 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

The guy's profession is spouting out logical fallacies.

http://rationalwiki....liam_Lane_Craig

This only proves how limiting our beliefs make us when seeking to understand another point of view....

Peace
mark

View PostOdin11, on 08 October 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

It’s next to impossible to win a debate with someone who debates like Craig. He uses a debating technique called Gish Gallop, which drowns the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. Dawkins didn’t lose, he just did not have enough time to answer all of Craig’s BS and lies. People, like Dawkins, don’t debate him because he’s a joke to them, not because they fear him (but keep telling yourself that, maybe if you say it enough it will come true). Craig is only trying to cash in on their names.

Hmmmm and Dawkins is so honest and logical when he speaks of 'faith heads'.  I will take Craig anytime.

Peace
mark


#19    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:44 PM

Well... I think this thread puts to rest the "there are no dogmatic atheists" bit. Don't you think?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#20    White Crane Feather

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:48 PM

View PostOdin11, on 08 October 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:



Itís next to impossible to win a debate with someone who debates like Craig. He uses a debating technique called Gish Gallop, which drowns the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. Dawkins didnít lose, he just did not have enough time to answer all of Craigís BS and lies. People, like Dawkins, donít debate him because heís a joke to them, not because they fear him (but keep telling yourself that, maybe if you say it enough it will come true). Craig is only trying to cash in on their names.
Dawkins is afraid to debate people that use real logic. All you have to do is watch any of the debates. His vast use of ad hominimns and non sequiturs prooves he does not have a mind for logic nor respect. You should hear Rupart sheldrake talk about the time dawkins wanted to discuss these things on camara with him.

Edited by Seeker79, 08 October 2012 - 09:49 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#21    Euphorbia

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 08 October 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Dawkins is afraid to debate people that use real logic. All you have to do is watch any of the debates. His vast use of ad hominimns and non sequiturs prooves he does not have a mind for logic nor respect. You should hear Rupart sheldrake talk about the time dawkins wanted to discuss these things on camara with him.

Wrong! Odin11 is quite correct!

You perceive it that way because you don't like Dawkins! Your attack on him is nothing more than your opinion.....your preconceived opinion....

In the scientific world, Dawkins has great respect.....William lane Craig.....not so much.  :td:

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

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#22    Euphorbia

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:07 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 08 October 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:


Hmmmm and Dawkins is so honest and logical when he speaks of 'faith heads'.  I will take Craig anytime.

Peace
mark

That's so sad!

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

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#23    StarMountainKid

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:06 AM

I find it hard to stomach these television evangelists with their religious infomercials, and for me Mr. Craig seems to fit right in with the rest of them I've watched. They look too slick and slimy. Would I buy a used car from these two in the OP's video? No.

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#24    Copasetic

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 01:06 AM

View Postdougeaton, on 08 October 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Well I disagree, he is a good thinker.  Dawkins was afraid to debate him, he did and lost.....you are right to fear him, though you mask it with contempt.


I have contempt for someone who's idea of a debate is just throwing a bunch of **** at the wall and hoping your opponent cant address it all in time? And then refusing to address any of their points and blundering on with more of their own?

Oh, gee well you caught me there doug.......

Fear him? No not at all. He is an idiot, he debates like an idiot--he doesn't debate for the sake of expanding knowledge or understanding. He doesn't debate to show any evidence or to sway people to his ideas. He does solely to win for the cameras. WLC could take the side of why it is great to eat babies their moms just pushed out and he would win. Not because that idea has any merit, because he is a professional debater who thinks a debate ought to be about how much crap you can say before your opponent eventually gets tired of addressing it all whilst ignoring everything they say or turning it into a strawman.

About the only reason there would be to fear idiots like that is because there are other people dumb enough to believe that is "winning a debate with evidence, etc" (ehhhm, looks at doug).


#25    Alienated Being

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:52 AM

View PostCopasetic, on 09 October 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

I have contempt for someone who's idea of a debate is just throwing a bunch of **** at the wall and hoping your opponent cant address it all in time? And then refusing to address any of their points and blundering on with more of their own?

Oh, gee well you caught me there doug.......

Fear him? No not at all. He is an idiot, he debates like an idiot--he doesn't debate for the sake of expanding knowledge or understanding. He doesn't debate to show any evidence or to sway people to his ideas. He does solely to win for the cameras. WLC could take the side of why it is great to eat babies their moms just pushed out and he would win. Not because that idea has any merit, because he is a professional debater who thinks a debate ought to be about how much crap you can say before your opponent eventually gets tired of addressing it all whilst ignoring everything they say or turning it into a strawman.

About the only reason there would be to fear idiots like that is because there are other people dumb enough to believe that is "winning a debate with evidence, etc" (ehhhm, looks at doug).
I would also like to point out that Christopher Hitchens demolished him in a debate.


#26    Rlyeh

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:21 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 08 October 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

This only proves how limiting our beliefs make us when seeking to understand another point of view....

Peace
mark
If your point of view is founded on logical fallacies, understanding is only going to refute it.


#27    Rlyeh

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:24 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 08 October 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Dawkins is afraid to debate people that use real logic. All you have to do is watch any of the debates. His vast use of ad hominimns and non sequiturs prooves he does not have a mind for logic nor respect. You should hear Rupart sheldrake talk about the time dawkins wanted to discuss these things on camara with him.
I'm no fan of Dawkins, but he has more respect than William Craig.

This is why Dawkins didn't debate the fool.

http://www.guardian....liam-lane-craig


#28    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 09 October 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

I'm no fan of Dawkins, but he has more respect than William Craig.

This is why Dawkins didn't debate the fool.

http://www.guardian....liam-lane-craig
Well, to be honest, I'm not a fan of Craig either.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#29    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

View PostEuphorbia, on 08 October 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:



Wrong! Odin11 is quite correct!

You perceive it that way because you don't like Dawkins! Your attack on him is nothing more than your opinion.....your preconceived opinion....

In the scientific world, Dawkins has great respect.....William lane Craig.....not so much.  :td:
Don't care that much for Craig either, but if you actually read his work, he dosnt seem to be much of a scientist at all. He simply involves hinself in and writes about his position on controversial subjects. He is not famouse for actually doing anything other than critisizing, and talking about what he thinks. Sounds more like a politician to me.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#30    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:34 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 09 October 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

I'm no fan of Dawkins, but he has more respect than William Craig.

This is why Dawkins didn't debate the fool.

http://www.guardian....liam-lane-craig
Dawkins has a history of refusing to debate people that actually use real logic.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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