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The Phoenix Lights revisited

ufo alien phoenix

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#121    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:21 AM

And this:

At about 8:30 p.m. Thursday, the 13th of March, Peter Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center in Seattle, WA, started receiving calls, first from the northwest part of Arizona, of a formation of lights moving south toward Prescott, AZ. These lights formed a basic triangle with as many as six or seven lights per side with two red lights trailing.

The real time line for this event is somewhere around 8:00 p.m. MST. As the calls kept flowing in, the description changed as to how many lights were involved. Some even said there were no lights at all, but they could see a black mass blocking out the stars as it passed between the viewer and the sky. The general description was of a "V," but it also resembled a crown with lights that formed an upward triangle. These lights were not like aircraft landing lights but more like stars. This description would change as the objects moved into the Phoenix area. The only consistent properties of the object(s) would be that there were no sound and very slow movement. However, if there was only one object, it could not have covered that distance in such a short time. This is a real "Catch-22," but may be the key to the solution. I know of three V formations that night and there may be more.

It was seen in Las Vegas and Henderson, moving south. I have wondered if it was seen in Laughlin and Bullhead City, Arizona, across the Colorado River.  I used to live in Henderson a long time ago--long before this incident.  

Posted Image

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 11 October 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#122    booNyzarC

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:23 AM

Okay, again, how does this contradict anything I've stated?


#123    psyche101

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:26 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

They weren't A-10s.  I was in the army and I've seen them in action by the way, so I would know the difference.

In fact, I've seen them shoot the hell out of things from time to time and once even had to help recover the body of an A-10 pilot.  That's another story and has nothing to do with UFOs.

One of the A10 Pilots has testified to dropping flares that night. What craft are you suggesting was sent up in pursuit?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#124    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:26 AM

Then it was seen in Prescott, Arizona, still moving south-southeast, as it had been all along.

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#125    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 11 October 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Okay, again, how does this contradict anything I've stated?

You don't talk about how it was seen outside of Phoenix for one thing.  I've have mentioned many times on various threads that it shouldn't be called the Phoenix Lights at all.


#126    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:32 AM

You can see from the maps where the UFO was moving, and where it was spotted, all the way to Tuscon, Arizona.   I once lived there too for a short time, so I have a sense of the geography and how this thing was moving, which is why I don't call it the "Phoenix Lights" at all and don't even like the name.

It was also flying over a lot of empty space in Nevada and Arizona, which I am very familiar with.

I bet if someone checked Bullhead City and Kingman, Arizona there would have been more witnesses.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 11 October 2012 - 04:34 AM.


#127    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:36 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 11 October 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

One of the A10 Pilots has testified to dropping flares that night. What craft are you suggesting was sent up in pursuit?

F-15 interceptors from what I've heard, and at least one of them got pretty close to the UFO, which was huge.


#128    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:39 AM

Some people even suggested that it came out of Nellis Air Force Base near Las Vegas, or was at least seen there, but I don't know that for sure.  That might tie it to Area 51 and all that, but I still get the impression that the military didn't know what this was.


#129    booNyzarC

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:42 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Then it was seen in Prescott, Arizona, still moving south-southeast, as it had been all along.

Posted Image

Pretty map, but so what?  Prescott is north of Phoenix.  Aircraft flying south from there would end up...  in the vicinity of Phoenix...  :hmm:


View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

You don't talk about how it was seen outside of Phoenix for one thing.  I've have mentioned many times on various threads that it shouldn't be called the Phoenix Lights at all.

That's nice and all, but so what?  I've been discussing the witnesses who were in and around Phoenix.  I've been discussing the sightings that took place in and around Phoenix.  Why?  Because most people refer to this incident as "The Phoenix Lights."  If there were additional sightings outside of this region, they're no longer "The Phoenix Lights."  If you look at the name of this thread you might notice that it is also named after "The Phoenix Lights."

So far I haven't seen you substantiate that this sighting that was supposedly outside of that area.  Saying that it was and substantiating that it was are not the same thing.  By the way, I'm not presenting any kind of counter claim to this, I'm just asking you to substantiate your own claim.  If you can substantiate it I'm willing to look at your information.  Supposing you do substantiate it, so what?  At that point it isn't "The Phoenix Lights."  At that point it's just another UFO, and you'll need to somehow tie this other UFO to the sightings which took place in the Phoenix area.

Do you think that you can do that?

I'm still not seeing any contradictions with anything I've stated.


#130    psyche101

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:48 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

I've never heard of anyone trying to suppress Mitch Stanley, not in any way.  As if we could even if we wanted to.

I've never even paid much attention to him because I just don't think what he said is that big a deal, one way or the other.


I guess I take him more seriously as I know what he was using, how it works, and that his reports are accurate with regards to specs.


He is definitely being suppressed, and was attacked for presenting his side of the story. If he is such small potatoes, one has to wonder why all proponents fear him greatly and try to bury him.


When Barwood made her appeal and the story began to appear in local newspapers, Jones attempted to let people know of Stanley's sighting. He called Richard de Uriarte, reader advocate at the Arizona Republic, as well as Barwood, directly. To both, Jones said that a local amateur astronomer had examined the lights through a large telescope and had seen that they were airplanes.

Jones says both promised to have someone call back who would take down his story and contact Mitch Stanley.

Neither one did.
"They really don't want to know," Linda Stanley says. "Here was a person who had seen it and [Barwood] never bothered to contact us at all."

LINK


After his sighting, Stanley tried to contact a Phoenix city councilwoman who was making noise about the event, as well as a couple of UFO flim-flam men working the local scene, but he was rebuffed.

LINK


When Stanley first gave an account of his observation at the Discovery Channel Town Hall Meeting with all the witnesses there he was shouted down in his assertion that what he saw was what other witnesses saw


LINK


Some obviously "want to".

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#131    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:50 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 11 October 2012 - 04:42 AM, said:

Pretty map, but so what?  Prescott is north of Phoenix.  Aircraft flying south from there would end up...  in the vicinity of Phoenix...  :hmm:

That's nice and all, but so what?  I've been discussing the witnesses who were in and around Phoenix.  I've been discussing the sightings that took place in and around Phoenix.  Why?  Because most people refer to this incident as "The Phoenix Lights."  If there were additional sightings outside of this region, they're no longer "The Phoenix Lights."  If you look at the name of this thread you might notice that it is also named after "The Phoenix Lights."

So far I haven't seen you substantiate that this sighting that was supposedly outside of that area.  Saying that it was and substantiating that it was are not the same
Do you think that you can do that?

I'm still not seeing any contradictions with anything I've stated.


Okay, I don't know anything more than what I've said.  That's all I can say.  Forget it.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 11 October 2012 - 04:50 AM.


#132    booNyzarC

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:54 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

Okay, I don't know anything more than what I've said.  That's all I can say.  Forget it.

Okay, fair enough.  Thanks for the discussion.


#133    psyche101

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:56 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 October 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

F-15 interceptors from what I've heard, and at least one of them got pretty close to the UFO, which was huge.


The Bill Hamilton Claim.

Problem being that Luke does not have any F15's Never did. That makes the claim hard to resolve.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#134    Bionic Bigfoot

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:10 AM

There are times when a person has a good reason to be skeptical and question things, any normal and rational person would.   There does come a point though in special cases such as the 'Phoenix Lights' and many other very unexplainable and controversial UFO cases where sometimes the enormous amout of conflicting facts speak for themselves.

Why is it that every time there is a UFO sighting that is harder to explain to the masses, it's always followed by a PR nightmare.  The flip flopping of statements issued, the changing of stories, slow disclosure and all leading to more confusion.   And why is it that the details are always shrouded in mystery and so difficult to corroborate? This shouldn't have turned into such huge and ongoing mystery if there was a simple explanation.  If it was an individual or the government that was responsible for the lights over Phoenix, then why wasn't there a press conference about that?  Not a little admission, but a full out press conference divulging every last detail of how this sighting apparently fooled nearly 10,000 people.

Since this event was seen by so many witnesses, why didn't those in power set up a live demonstration to show the citizens of Phoenix EXACTLY how the lights were accomplished.  Instead, maps and models were used, computer similated graphics and ridiculous explanations by dubious inviduals were presented.  Why didn't they recreate the event, as it was seen, to show the public once and for all.  Wouldn't this put an end to all the cristism and speculation?  To me, this would be the perfect way to assure the city that there was nothing unusual seen in the skies over Phoenix back in 1997.  But no, they couldn't and they can't because they wouldn't be able to recreate the event and because it wasn't conventional and earthly technology.


#135    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:42 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 10 October 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Arrogance has got nothing to do with it. People will believe whatever they think backs up their belief & discard the rational if it doesn't, hell it happens on this forum a hundred times a day. Americans are much more susceptible to the idea of alien visitation than other places around the world simply because of modern american sci-fi culture seen in hollywood films & t.v. UFO & alien stories have always followed the hollywood ideas of the time. During the 40s & 50s most sightings were of 'saucer shaped' craft, after Close encounters we had the emergence of 'the greys' & now after the 'X-Files' we have the 'triangle'.
All these things can be connected with the cultural fiction of it's time, ...no great mystery.

IMO, arrogance has *everything* to do with it. Your "people will believe whatever backs up their belief and discard the rest" - is the exact arrogance that I refer to.

Case in point right within this thread....
Several Phoenix witnesses saw an actual *craft*,,, triangular - not just "lights".
the so-caled flares (lights) apparently traveled hundreds of miles, according to witness accounts.

the skeptics here look at those evidences (and many more) and just blow them completely off because the evidences do not support the belief that the arrogant ones cling to and refuse to let go. Simple as that.

Sitting right in this UM board, skeptics will say the eye witnesses that saw the craft (it flew over a married couple, who had pulled over in their car) are crazy, delusional etc etc. CASE CLOSED! Who needs evidence to defeat their assertion, HA!
They actually use their conclusion as evidence that backs up their conclusion. Since it is FACT that winesses saw no craft (an evidence based *only* on their conclusion), those witnesses had to be delusional people, right?

And witnesses that support their view...? Hey - no need to vet them for their sanity, they're obviously in their right mind, RIGHT?

see how it works? Just whisk those dumb-dumbs away by fiat. That's how you "win"!

To me, that is the epitome of arrogance.

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