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The Phoenix Lights revisited

ufo alien phoenix

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#886    quillius

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

View Postbee, on 17 October 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

thanks Q..... :tu:

good point....has a time ever been mentioned anywhere..... :unsure2:


Hey Bee,

only through second hand accounts.....basically nothing to yet confirm the many eye witnesses reports are the same 'object(s)' Mitch saw.....but as I mention briefly in previous post, I think there was a lot of activity in the air that night and this would have included some military jets,

I am sure someone using aa map with correct timings will show how Mitch corroborates with any report of a low flying triangle.......or maybe not...


#887    quillius

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:00 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 October 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

Gidday Mate

Astronomer, amateur astronomer. That is just a description the press makes, and we have not control over that. I think that is potatoes potatos in this instance where the object of discussion is what he sighted, and the indisputable fact that of all the claims, his had the best view. If his experience was in question I think that would be a relevant point. But I do not think one needs to much experience to have a look around your own backyard.

Indeed you are right, when on approach planes do come close enough to the ground however  Mitch's initial description is that he had the impression that the private planes he saw were small and high, which might account for those of us that have failing eyesight, such as myself, and parallax error would definitely account for a number of such claims as well.

I do not think what he proposes is at all unreasonable.


Cheers.

Hey Psyche,

Just to add that for the lights on the wing tips to merge and become a point source they would indeed as LS pointed out have to have been very high but in addition very very bright. As previously noted the brightness/strangeness of lights attracted attention as they didnt seem normal, but this begs the question just how high and bright were these planes?

also you say 'Mitch's initial description is that he had the impression that the private planes he saw were small and high'

I cannot see this anywhere? I have seen an incorrect assumption made (by Ortega I believe) that because they were small it meant they were high, which I previously highlighted as a fallacy.....being small could be caused by distance and not height, so we cannot conclude such.


:tu:


#888    Mangoze

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

View Postquillius, on 22 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

...
Just to add that for the lights on the wing tips to merge and become a point source they would indeed as LS pointed out have to have been very high but in addition very very bright. As previously noted the brightness/strangeness of lights attracted attention as they didnt seem normal, but this begs the question just how high and bright were these planes?
...

Questioning LS's facts is hardly ever fruitful, if ever.  However, if an aircraft was flying at an angle to the observer, the apparent wingspan would be less than the actual wingspan.  Maybe this is what's happening.

I'll also add that if I'm out at night walking walking by the ocean I can sometimes observe aircraft that appear to me as a single point of light.  I assume they are from the a small airfield about 13km away.  It's difficult to make out which direction they are heading; but they they are brighter than any star in the sky.


#889    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:25 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 19 October 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

57 pages of revisiting. Guess this hasn't been resolved.

that's because you can't fix 'stupid' :-*

just saying!

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#890    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:41 PM

I'll speak slowly for the slow at understanding in here.

You own a house in a rural area next to a heavily wooded area. You own many dogs that you keep fenced in, abutting the wooded area.


......Sunday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

......Monday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.....Tuesday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

Wednesday night: WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFQOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
ALL,,,, NIGHT,,,,, LONG.



....Thursday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.........Friday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.....Saturday night: Sleeping dogs lie.








Ya see, it's really very simple, negatorries.


WOOF

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps, 22 October 2012 - 07:57 PM.

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#891    booNyzarC

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

I sometimes wonder about some people.


#892    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

heavens, that must have taken some patience to type out. Is it an allusion to the famous incident in the Sherlock Holmes story, Silver Blaze?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#893    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

View Post747400, on 22 October 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

heavens, that must have taken some patience to type out. Is it an allusion to the famous incident in the Sherlock Holmes story, Silver Blaze?


hot dang, you have a lot of posts. I tip my hat, sir! :yes:

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~ Mahmoud Ahmadinejad~


"It is easier to fool somebody than it is to convince them they've been fooled"   ~Mark Twain~


#894    Hazzard

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 09:44 PM

Friends applaud, the comedy is finished.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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#895    psyche101

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:44 AM

View Postquillius, on 22 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Hey Psyche,

Just to add that for the lights on the wing tips to merge and become a point source they would indeed as LS pointed out have to have been very high but in addition very very bright.

Gidday Mate

I do not think they have to be bright. Just last night when I arrived home I saw an unusual light in the sky. It was very bright, and too high to hear, and I could only see one light. It caught my attention because it was crossing what is a normal flight path at about 30 degrees. Speed indicated to me that it was likely a plane. I see lights before I hear planes all the time, I do not think it has to be extremely bright, as they are by default. But merging one light into two I think would be easily accomplished with failing eyesight (which is everyone in Phoenix pretty much over 40 at least) or parallax error would more than compensate for many more claims. And considering the claims come from all corners of Phoenix, I do not see how parallax error is not a factor?

View Postquillius, on 22 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

As previously noted the brightness/strangeness of lights attracted attention as they didnt seem normal, but this begs the question just how high and bright were these planes?

It depends on what he saw, Some are saying he saw military, but Mitch seems to think what he saw was private. SOme claims say the lights were in the direction of the Phoenix airport, if the planes were private as Mitch suggested, and on approach to the airport, I would presume they are in a landing pattern, the height would then be between 3,000 and 300 feet roughly wouldn't it? Again, dependant in individual claims based on vantage points.

View Postquillius, on 22 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

also you say 'Mitch's initial description is that he had the impression that the private planes he saw were small and high'

I cannot see this anywhere? I have seen an incorrect assumption made (by Ortega I believe) that because they were small it meant they were high, which I previously highlighted as a fallacy.....being small could be caused by distance and not height, so we cannot conclude such.


:tu:


That's the one. the Hack and the Quack article. I gave the link ;)

It was plain to see, Stanley says. Under magnification, Stanley could clearly see that each light split into pairs, one each on the tips of squarish wings. Even under the telescope's power, the planes appeared small, indicating that they were flying high. Stanley says he followed the planes for about a minute, then turned his telescope to more interesting objects.

Frances Emma Barwood has an agenda, I think she is a hyped up nutter. Looking at what she offered:

Quote

There is an interesting rumor also that the head of the astronomers club that the young boy who saw planes way up there was a member, is a personal friend of Tony O's. I seem to remember when the first article appeared last year, he had called me, he did say that a friend of his had an astronomer's club and one of the members saw planes that night. He also accused me of not returning his friend's call. The man did call but never left a number and said that he would have the kid call me, which he never did. I find it most interesting that 1 young man says it was small plane formation way up high and thousands say it was a humongous flying boomerang shaped object, that flew very slow, was very obvious, flew over the most densely populated path from north to south of Arizona was very low and was totally silent! And TONY ORTEGA believes the kid!

Spiteful, nasty, and offeres no more than an appeal to authority. Another who qualifies "thousands" as solid "evidence" I'd really like to see her back that up. This is the sort of crackpot who stifled Mitch. From a personal perspective, I do not believe her for a second that she had no number to call, and she stated that she knew Mitch was a friend of Ortegas, whom she could have easily called to get Mitch's details. Frances Emma Barwood is one of the people that make this subject a tin foil hat one. I think UFOLogists should be more wary of hooking up with dodgy people like this to be honest.

Edited by psyche101, 23 October 2012 - 01:53 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#896    psyche101

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

View Post747400, on 22 October 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

At the time, perhaps, although major exercises are usually publicised in order to not alarm the People. Anyway, the point was that there must be records of whether or not there were any ®CAF squadrons deployed to Arizona for exercises at that time? There'd be no reason for that to still be Secret. Therefore it should be easy enough to verify if there might have been any canadian pilots in the vicinity. If so, it may have been them, even if they may not have been the Snowbirds.


How much information do we have on the Snowbird operation other than it happened, and would we even know about it if not for this event?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#897    psyche101

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:59 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 22 October 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

that's because you can't fix 'stupid' :-*

just saying!

We did try!!

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#898    psyche101

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 22 October 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

I'll speak slowly for the slow at understanding in here.

You own a house in a rural area next to a heavily wooded area. You own many dogs that you keep fenced in, abutting the wooded area.


......Sunday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

......Monday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.....Tuesday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

Wednesday night: WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFQOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
.............................WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF
ALL,,,, NIGHT,,,,, LONG.



....Thursday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.........Friday night: Sleeping dogs lie.

.....Saturday night: Sleeping dogs lie.








Ya see, it's really very simple, negatorries.


WOOF


So was it a burglar, or did another dog on heat wander past on Wednesday night?

Something you should be aware of or not?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#899    DONTEATUS

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:34 AM

:sk WHere did it all Go So! wrong ?

This is a Work in Progress!

#900    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:23 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 23 October 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

How much information do we have on the Snowbird operation other than it happened, and would we even know about it if not for this event?
They're an Aerobatic team. Their operations aren't exactly a secret. the point I keep trying to say is that it should be easy enough to verify whether or not their were any Canadian squadrons in the area for exercises at the time. Someone must still have a record of that, and there's no reason why that would be secret.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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