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The Phoenix Lights revisited

ufo alien phoenix

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#991    DONTEATUS

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

Well that just about says it all in one word ! Nah ! :no:

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#992    booNyzarC

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:43 PM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

As far as who is telling the truth...? you know it's proven that the government LIED. their explanation to the *whole * thing was flares.


Hi again Earl.  Could I also trouble you to explain why you are under the impression that anyone has tried to explain "the *whole * thing" as flares?

I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone make this claim, so if they have it should be corrected.

Thanks Earl.


#993    Slave2Fate

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 05 November 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Yes, they are on a timer.  Here are a handful of links which talk about them, for any interested.

http://www.fas.org/m...s/dumb/luu2.htm
http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm
http://www.globalsec...itions/luu2.htm
http://www.markwaki....ges/LUU-2BB.htm
http://www.ordnance.org/luu2bb.htm

In addition, here's a link to the flight manual for the A10-Warthog available on Scribd.

From your second link:

Quote

The mechanical timer assembly consists of a mechanical timer and related hardware in a Lexan plastic housing. The nonexplosive mechanical timer functions like the explosive Mk 364 fuze on the Mk 45 flare. The mechanical timer is a three-gear timer, powered by a torsional mainspring. A phosphorescent plastic decal with calibrated markings from 250 to 11,000 feet of fall is located on the face of the timer cover. A white, plastic, dial timer knob is used to set the desired drop distance. Settings of 150,500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet can be selected. A safe setting is also provided.

So if the timers are set to say, 1000 ft. and are deployed at (example) 20,000ft they would ignite at 19,000 ft.

There is no inherent feature of the LUU2b flare that determines if it can only ignite at a certain altitude.

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#994    DONTEATUS

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:11 AM

If you hold a Roman candle and point it into your eyes you just might be a Red Eye believer ! :no:

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#995    bee

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:32 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Ya know, bee, I had a little time to think about it.

I did commit in here to thinking that the mother ship might be man made, and perhaps black delta.

I'm getting away from that. I do not think thye would ever fly it near a populaion center if they are trying to keep it hidden.

ET, or maybe humans from the future.


fair enough....

thanks for at least taking the time to think about it and comment

cheers Earl....

(at this point in time I haven't changed my mind about the possibilty of  Big Black Delta(s) being the answer...

or something along those lines)


:tu:


#996    booNyzarC

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:58 AM

View Postbee, on 06 November 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

fair enough....

thanks for at least taking the time to think about it and comment

cheers Earl....

(at this point in time I haven't changed my mind about the possibilty of  Big Black Delta(s) being the answer...

or something along those lines)


:tu:

Good to hear that you've come to realize that it was planes for the earlier event and flares for the later event bee.  :)

That is what you're saying, right?

;)



:P


#997    psyche101

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:23 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

It does..? how so??

By refusing one to come to a conclusion. Whilst the critical thinkers have brought mountains of information to the table to qualify what is actually possible, you are asking one to discount all the for an anonymous cherry picked testimony from someone whom you assume "was there". An anonymous claim could come from me Earl, and I live in the other side of the world, but lets face it, would a place like UFO Chronicles investigate my claim or just post it?
Your insistance on listening to those who "were there" stifles many people with a different story to tell. You only want to listen to those who claim to have been there that talk about a giant triangle, what about the other testimonies?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#998    psyche101

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:04 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Psyche, that is not what I meant.  Do you think anything in the "very unusual" order was in the sky that night *besides* military and flares?

Hale-Bop is unusual. That was in the sky. That was the only unusual thing in the sky.

Do I think something like a giant triangle, or a giant boomerang, or a giant semi circle was in te sky and it was some sort of craft? No way.

Is that what you mean?

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Hale-Bopp was indeed in the skies. You right now are trying to say that's ALL there was in the skies - besides military.
Everyone knows what a comet is and everyone knew Hale-Bopp was to be seen that night. They *do* know the difference.

What else was in the sky?


Yes they do know the difference. Hale Bop was a reason to look up. That was why so many witness military exercises at night. I really doubt that most of Phoenix regularly walks outside and carefully scans the sky, as one does when a celestial event is present.

That is the big difference. People had a reason to look up that night, and because they did, they saw something they normally would not. They would normally be in bed or watching TV at 10PM, this is considering that you speak of the later sighting, and I assume as much due to the frequent references to flares by yourself.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Complete and utter bullsh*t - and there is no other way to say it.
You were NOT there, you have NO WAY to establish that assertion and you know it.
More wishful thinking!

What is bullsh*t Earl? That people react differently, I do not think so. All I did was offer you a personal example of such, that does happen to me on a regular basis.

I think it is wishful thinking to believe that everyone in Phoenix thinks this was one giant craft. I have clearly established that is simply not the case. You seem to think that the claims that made the papers, and I believe did so due to the nature of the telling of the recollection, are the only ones that exist. Did you read Rose Kaufmanns claim? It solidly refutes something amazing happening as you claim did. She "was there".

How can you establish which ones are telling the truth? Personally, I find maths can prove that, and obviously it does, but you refuse it for reasons unknown and run with unsubstantiated claims. Were you in Phoenix to verify these people were there on the night or have you verified that any of the claimants you have taken for gospel are even residents of Phoenix? Or are you believing something you have read someplace? Does it not make sense to apply any parameters one can to establish just who is telling the truth seeiming as neither you nor I were there?

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

#1 - think of this. WOOF. many many people spoke out that night. The only person on a government level that spoke to the people was the governor of Arizona. Nevada and Arizona each have two Senators and several members of the House. *at the very least*, some or all could have/should have tried to calm and comfort those people, their own constituents. It didn't happen. That alone should tell you something very big about the feds trying their damndest to cover it all up. Had the Representatives/Senators spoken out to the people via the media, *then*, they will have added a strong evidence that the whole incident reached a critical level and now, people all over the rest of the country and world, would take teh witnesses seriously and Big Gov has real problems, at that point.
Hence, it's the old "stand down" trick of the government. Shhhhhh!!! Works like a charm!

Wow, paranoid some?

Are you serious? Because other senators did not act like complete fools you assume they are in on a cover up, and that they must have seen something because that clown Symmington claimed to have done so?

Are you serious?


View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

I also believe the Feds had the governor pull that little stunt with the ET.
BigGov knows that to get people to shut up about it, hold them up for ridicule. Works great!!


The idiot in the costume was his own chief of staff. No blaming this on the MIB, this dumb stunt was Fife's very own idea.

Did this clown demand answers from Washington? Did he open any avenues, tell the people how to attain disclosure, or do anything helpful at all? Or did he just run with the popular idea? What did that stunt actually accomplish? The only people that saw him as a fiool were some critical thinkers. Far too many ohhed and ahhhhhed over an official Governor being so bold about the "Governmental Taboo" subject! The sacrifice was contrived and based on an appeal to authority. I am very surprised so many fell for that ridiculous stage show.


View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

As far as who is telling the truth...? you know it's proven that the government LIED. their explanation to the *whole * thing was flares.

The 8PM sighting was never explained as flares at any point in time.

The 10PM event was. And the Government did not lie. Some dumbass reporter checked the wrong logs.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

As far as the people are concerned, you know they were very disturbed in some cases, you know what they said they saw, and for the most cases they must be taken seriously because you don't get that many people to react to a damn weather balloon or a comet. They are so numerous that you must also consider that - unless they are having some huge conspiracy, they have to be telling the truth as best they can. you cannot get so many thousands of people to react like that in one night. It never happened before that and hasn't happened since. Shouldn't these confused, nervous nellies be having these sightings once a month, say??

No, they do not look up. The exercises are not a nightly event. In this instance they happened to co-incide with a visiting comet, so people looked up to see the comet and saw more activity than a comet, and in some cases, over reacted to what they assumed was an unknown. It has happened since, and because people were ready and waiting for it, it did not have the same impact.
Even the perception of a giant triangle never fired upon anyone, it never acted threateningly in any fashion. Those how claimed fear had not reason for such did they? So why fear? Contrived. Just like the triangle shape.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Anyway, the government is the liar, the people are mostly telling the ,truth and you find it convenient to believe proven liars in this case.

your critical thinking here is critically ill
, sorry.

If my critical thinking is ill......... Who does Fife Symington work for? Who does Mitch Stanley work for? Apply that to the above, and what do you get?

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Well you never did see any radar evidence and you never *will*. I am not sure where you can just slough off the people as "no evidence".
In fact, I am sure you cannot. They were there, you weren't. And like it or not, "eye witness testimony" is allowed in court.


Eye witness testimony has been proven to be wrong in 75% of cases overturned by DNA evidence. That is why its position in a courtroom is being evaluated. Modern science, and math, has shown eye witnesses are very often very wrong.

The same applies, were you there, how do you know which witness was telling the truth? Was Rose Kauffman, Phoenix resident telling the truth when she said she had a good vantage point and saw planes?

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

And by the way,
What these people saw and the way they described it, varied. We already talked about this.


And many discrepancies have been noted. That means many people had a different perception of what they think they saw. That makes sense to me that if individual lights were the cause, then this is exactly what would happen because the shifting pattern would offer differing views at different points in time. This explains, and allows for differing testimonies.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

If you can believe that there are no similarities to a boomerrang and a crescent, or a V-shaped craft, or a carpenter's square shape,
than in MO, you are being grossly unfair. the shapes are similar. the people viewing are not professionals trained to be looking for UFO's, nor were they ready to see any UFO's that night, they got caught faltfooted. Alos, it was night, it was dark.

what do you want from them, the name, make and model of the craft?
I mean, really?! they never *saw* one of these before

I think they did fine under the circumstances.


If that is your opinion then I feel you are making generous allowances. A triangle blocks out all the light correct? Is that not the description? Not the case with a boomerang, you would see the stars in the centre. Totally different things, and the descriptions that say "It blocked out ALL the stars" has to be a triangle not a boomerang. So if some people saw stars, and some did not, that indicates to me that people had different perceptions as per their eyesight, and this would well affect the illusory contours that everyone is privy to. If the object if "overhead" one cannot be mistaking the sighting due to parallax error, yet this is where both descriptions come from. Back to illusory contours again.

I do not understand your objection to testing the claims for validity and insisting on running with perception. I canot see how that could possibly be accurate.

Edited by psyche101, 06 November 2012 - 08:06 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#999    psyche101

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:20 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

doesn't matter. the flares won't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude.

Not the case Earl

4. The case assembly with the tamped candle The mechanical timer assembly consists of a mechanical timer and related hardware in a Lexan plastic housing. The mechanical timer is a three-gear timer, powered by a torsional mainspring. A phosphorescent plastic decal with calibrated markings from 250 to 11,000 feet of fall is located on the face of the timer cover. A white, plastic, dial timer knob is used to set the desired drop distance. Settings of 250, 500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet can be selected. A safe setting is also provided.

LINK


View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

I think I blew it, Psyche. I think I RE-replied to a post of yours that you already answered and now I have to get to your latest. not today, though

Ont thing really caught my eye in your most recent.
You mentioned that you disliked the Governor of Arizona because he, as a responsible politician is supposed to behave a certain way

I AGREE!!

first time ever? lets mark that on the calendar LOL

Marked, but I do not always disagree with you Earl. I think you have posed some very good questions, and you are polite to me so I do my best to return the courtesy. You are the sort of bloke I would enjoy a cold beer with I am sure. I just find that I think you put far too much faith in the media. That is where the stories are coming from, and the media has a real bad reputation for twisting the facts to make a story sound more juicy.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 November 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Now, on the subject then, of *"beavior" by a politican, how about the four Senators from Arizona/Nevada plus THIRTEEN reps? how they lookin'??

How about their behavior? -  or lack thereof. Where were they all thru this incident and in the days to follow? Talk about silent movies, Jeesh.

A *responsible* politician would at least talk to the people and try to calm their fears and promise to have in investigation to show s/he is concerned.

Not a useless one of them one did a DAMN thing.

Strange, or is it a conspiracy amongst them and Washington pols, intel, military?

remember now, no making stuff up LOL

I like to leave links so that people can see confirmation of what I am saying. I tend to state when I speculate.
I am honestly not sure what you expect them to say. So many people were running around with their own stories, I am not sure how they could make the situation better. Surely thousands of people were not terrified and required comforting. I reuse to believe that America is so wimpy. I could not see one of the guys I talk to here running for cover in a situation like Phoenix, but running for a camera. Mitch Stanley was not phased, either was Rose Kauffman. I truly believe you have received the wrong impression from the media and have an unlikely picture. I do not know of any reason to think that the larger majority of Phoenix were terrified by the sighting and why they would need a senator to speak to them. I would think that given the UFO treatment the situation received would be enough reason for people to not want the Government involved considering the comments I see on this board, such as you have expressed above.

Let me know what you think of this take on Symmingtons antics. - LINK

Edited by psyche101, 06 November 2012 - 08:23 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1000    psyche101

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:24 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 06 November 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Good to hear that you've come to realize that it was planes for the earlier event and flares for the later event bee.  :)

That is what you're saying, right?

;)



:P


I think Bee always knew it very well deep down. I think she has some fun with us ;)

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#1001    Sweetpumper

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

The late Doc Berry said it best—“The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997”; his title best describes what happened that Thursday evening. Moreover, nine years later, I (we) still look for a return visit from our alien friends. I don’t have a problem saying that feared word “alien” at all. “Nothing of this earth” describes what we saw pass in front of us around 8:30 PM that night. Nothing!

To date, as I write this, I am still encountering new witnesses and hearing new stories of that wonderful day; so many reports will never make the Internet, television, radio, or ever be told to the general public. This is so distressing! One goal I had when we moved to the high country of northern Arizona was to find new witnesses and meet many of those who were just too concerned for their jobs, worried about ridicule from friends or family or just not knowing who to contact. There are many more who I feel have yet to tell their story. . . .

http://www.theufochr...nix-lights.html

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#1002    Sweetpumper

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

Sixteen years after a group of mysterious lights were spotted by thousands throughout the Valley, theories still swirl about what was overhead.

"Most people saw a mile to two-mile wide formation of lights in a V-formation gliding (at) rooftop level," said Dr. Lynne Kitei, who has been studying the phenomenon for years.

"Some people actually saw a craft. Others saw these orbs detach from the main environment," she continued.
The mass sighting happened March 13, 1997, and Kitei says she's surprised there still has not been any definitive answer as to what was in the sky above Phoenix.

http://www.14news.co...after-sightings

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated."
- Hunt for the Skinwalker

"So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own." Dr. Abraham Erskine

#1003    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Quote

About a month (after a front page June 1997 USA Today article about the sightings), the flare theory emerged," she explained, referring to the explanation that the Phoenix Lights were actually part of a military exercise. Dr. Kitei says this theory began more than five months after the original March 13, 1997 mass sightings.
However, Kitei says she recently received Air Force documents dated May 1, 1997 that state Luke Air Force Base was not involved in any way with the lights over Phoenix.
"I have been searching for a logical explanation meticulously for the last 16 years," said Kitei.
"I don't know what these things are, but I know they are. So it's time we get this topic out in the open. So address it, accept it and study it, she added.

Well I dont know what to think... I find it strange that people alot of them didnt know what an airplane looks like if there ever was an airplane formation. You see if people wouldnt know the difference between airplane and something strange there wouldnt be any fuzz over this event. But obviously they saw something that didnt make any sense..Thus they werent airplanes... they make sense... We would need sattelite images of that day over the town to get better perspective of what we are even discussing..
This is like another 9/11 thread a neverending story..Why? Because US gov./military didnt offer any good and credible explanation... so that makes me think they dont have single clue.. But they cant say it was an alien craft for sure..They would make people panic.. right... they would..people wouldnt give a damn until proven a threat to their routine everyday life..

Edited by Tesla II, 15 March 2013 - 05:15 PM.

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#1004    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

Still interesting link pumper.. 16 years devoted to this... and it comes down to a military document saying the airbase had nothing to do with it... This really fits into unexplained mystery.

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#1005    DONTEATUS

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:13 AM

WHens the Movie coming out is what I want to know ? :tu: :alien: :no:

This is a Work in Progress!




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