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[Merged]Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon


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#121    Zaphod222

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostLion6969, on 11 October 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Which Muslims said they saw Allah? Something like that would be contrary to their faith. No one will see gods face or god but the believers on the final day and judgement. The non believers at this point will still not see their maker even after judgement passed, that will be tougher to take than punishment itself. Thats an Islamic stance, so I'm intrigued which Muslims saw Allah?

I understand other faiths go on about seeing their gods etc but you can't lump them all together, it's not an academic thing to do is it?


I agree. A muslim who claims he has seen Allah would be killed pretty quickly by his wonderful co-believers. As you correctly said, it is stupid to lump all religions together.
If there is one thing that you can say about all of them is that they are irrational belief systems. But the contents are as different as you can get, from the ultra-pacifist Jain religion to the Jihad-obsessed islam and from polytheistic Hinduism to Buddhism, which does not even have one god.

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#122    Artaxerxes

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:26 PM

At the very heart of pretty much all religion are where they originate from.  They are highly embellished and out of sequence near death experiences, death bed visions, mystical and transcendental experiences, and transcendental experiences from psyllocybin, mushrooms, ergot on rye, peyote, ayahuasca, licking toads, etc.   These stories get told and retold and embellished and they change to fit the culture they originate from but at the heart of all these religions are common experiences that are still happening today.

Edited by Artaxerxes, 12 October 2012 - 03:27 PM.


#123    Artaxerxes

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

There  is a connection between NDE's and quantum physics and the holographic universe that has never been adequately explained away to me. Near death experiencers routinely describe their experiences in terms that can only be called "holographic" and they also say things that seem to parallel things I've read about quantum physics. I find that very evidential. There is no way that a housewife from Kansas or an uneducated truck driver from South Georgia would know or understand anything about quantum physics or the holographic nature of the universe yet they routinely come back after their experiences and describe them in terms that can only be called "holographic."

People who have NDE's routinely talk about overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness, feeling like they are everywhere in the universe at once, time and space not existing, buildings that are "made out of knowledge", 360 degree vision, seeing colors they've never seen before, hearing sounds that they haven't heard in this physical universe, and during the life review seeing their whole lives flash by in an instant (bolus of information)and feeling the emotions and feelings of the people they interacted with (the life review is a holographic experience par excellence), and how the other side will feel even more real to us than this side does, and feeling the feelings and hearing the thoughts of the people they interacted with. I find these things to be very evidential because it parallels things I've read about in popular physics books.

This explains why it is that so many near death experiencers say that the other side will feel even more real to us than this side does, and how it could be "realer than real" or "more consciousness than normal." Near death experiencers also say that it will feel even more real to us than this side does. The quote below explains why or how this is possible.

"Or, to put it another way, a holographic universe is blurry," says Hogan. This is good news for anyone trying to probe the smallest unit of space-time. ...


http://blogs.monogra...ys-to-be-first/

There is quite a bit of evidence from physics and near death experiences that our so called physical universe is some kind of strange holographic projection. The implications of this are enormous.

Our Universe may be a giant hologram (1 page)


http://www.inquisitr...giant-hologram/

The Universe as a hologram (about 5 or 6 pages):
http://www.crystalin...olographic.html

Testing the holographic universe

http://www.symmetrym...aphic-universe/

If you read Mark Horton's NDE and the parallels with the holographic universe theory become obvious:

http://www.mindsprin.../nde/markh.html

Near Death Experiences: A Holographic Explanation, Dr. Oswald Harding.

http://www.amazon.co...55530488&sr=1-1


#124    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:58 PM

View PostRender, on 12 October 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:



Pfff, no. You're still making faulty analogies so it's obvious i can not explain it to you. So nevermind.
yes, I understand that you CAN'T explain it to me. You are under fallacious belief that because a doctor can stimulate an expierience that that some how says something about the nature of the experience itself. Quite obviously it dosnt.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#125    Cybele

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:14 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 12 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

You are under fallacious belief that because a doctor can stimulate an expierience that that some how says something about the nature of the experience itself. Quite obviously it dosnt.

For someone who is not emotionally invested in the idea that NDEs are spiritual, it is at least fairly suggestive.

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#126    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostCybele, on 12 October 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:



For someone who is not emotionally invested in the idea that NDEs are spiritual, it is at least fairly suggestive.
Suggestive of what exactly?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#127    Cybele

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 12 October 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Suggestive of what exactly?

That NDEs are caused by brain trauma/abnormalities. Anecdotal evidence is not sufficient evidence for many.

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#128    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:10 AM

View PostCybele, on 12 October 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:



That NDEs are caused by brain trauma/abnormalities. Anecdotal evidence is not sufficient evidence for many.
I don't think there is any dispute about what causes an NDE. It's being near or approaching death usually trauma of some sort, the debate is over the meaning of the experience.

I'll say it yet again. Those with a materialist/reductionist premis will usually view the brain as a producer of conciousness, while those with a spiritual premis will usually view the brain as a receiver of conciousness ( like a radio that is tunned into a specific channel). Any tampering with the hard where will produce effects that support both views.  

It's not just anecdotes?!?!??? Research into conciousness, social science, psychology often take surveys of people's experiences that can be scanned, graphed, and studied fur patterns, corolations, statistical abnormalities, to arrive a at empirical based conclusions, based on the experiences of others. The mountain of evidence behind the meaning of NDEs is staggering. We can even make statistical predictions that can be tested.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#129    Supersquatch

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:14 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 13 October 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

It's not just anecdotes?!?!??? Research into conciousness, social science, psychology often take surveys of people's experiences that can be scanned, graphed, and studied fur patterns,

Interestingly, such studies have found that people experience different NDEs due to their culture. Not all near-death just experience Jesus or God but another god or even relatives.

View PostSeeker79, on 13 October 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

The mountain of evidence behind the meaning of NDEs is staggering.

What evidence?

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#130    Cybele

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:56 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 13 October 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

It's not just anecdotes?!?!??? Research into conciousness, social science, psychology often take surveys of people's experiences that can be scanned, graphed, and studied fur patterns, corolations, statistical abnormalities, to arrive a at empirical based conclusions, based on the experiences of others. The mountain of evidence behind the meaning of NDEs is staggering. We can even make statistical predictions that can be tested.

Kindly point me towards the peer-reveiwed journal articles. I have full access to a fair amount.

Edited by Cybele, 13 October 2012 - 01:58 AM.

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#131    Metal Head

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 02:12 AM

Coma isn't death. Unconsciousness isn't death. What plagues me about NDe's is the people who come back to life, and tell all about what they saw. How are these memories even valid, in brain death there are no memories, the mind isn't functioning so how are they remembering what happened using a tool (the brain) when it doesn't function? It's an interesting topic to say the least but anything can happen during a coma, you are basically in a dream state, how is what he experienced different than any other fictional dream sequence?

Edited by Metal Head, 13 October 2012 - 02:14 AM.


#132    Hawkin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:01 AM

Befitting  a man of his education one would think that Dr. Alexander would dismiss his experience as some kind of Lucid Dream. But apparently his experience had such a profound affect on him that it was life changing for him. One should consider that.


#133    kcoutch

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:03 AM

my experience with meningitis was much different.  I was given last rights and died and had an outer body experience.  I met Jesus and my guardian angel.  I saw faces of relatives that I didn't know but knew they were relatives.  Things were calm but very bright and He was very handsome and the bluest eyes I had ever seen.  He held my hand and spoke to me telling me that I would be alright and that It wasn't my time.  He asked what he could do for me and I asked him to turn the lights out.  He laughed and said he would do that and that was all I could remember.  I spent 7 hours in a coma after that.

Kristen


#134    Habitat

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:29 AM

If no lawyers report being in heaven during NDE's, that would be solid evidence for them being real encounters with the "other side", imo.


#135    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostTaylor Reints, on 13 October 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:



Interestingly, such studies have found that people experience different NDEs due to their culture. Not all near-death just experience Jesus or God but another god or even relatives.



What evidence?
Been over this half a dozen times aswell. Just look back on this thread or the other one. Different cultures interpret many things from their own perspectives. Including simple simple conversations.

Edited by Seeker79, 13 October 2012 - 04:42 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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