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[Merged] Proof of Heaven


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#121    White Crane Feather

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

View Postjoc, on 23 October 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:


From the article: he found 100 per cent of people calling themselves atheists had experienced "tremendous ecstasy".

Tremendous ecstasy!  They all have one thing in common.   They all were 'dead' so to speak...meaning their brain went through extreme trauma...and they returned, all experiencing, Tremendous Ecstasy.  The brain flooded with endorphins and dopamine I would gather.
100% ? there are plenty of negative NDEs to show that "good feelings" are not the only result.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#122    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:15 PM

View Postjoc, on 23 October 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Why are you not allowed to discuss your own experiences?

It is the mystical "path" I follow. It is taught that spiritual "attainments" are only granted by God to one who doesn't speak of them (to do so would be a form of "bragging" no matter how much one tried to word it to sound otherwise). It is taught, and has been taught by history's greatest mystics, that everything is granted only by the grace of God and that such grace is only given to those who begin to let go of their "ego" (having things be about "me") so that their concerns are not about themselves but about God.

I understand that probably sounds ludicrous but i have had enough "proof" that it is so that i will never challenge it, lol. I'm not even saying that I have anything worth talking about. I am saying that even if i had nothing at all, I can't talk about it if i wish to have anything one day. What i have or haven't experienced doesn't matter. If i sat here and told everyone of wild and wonderful journeys I've had to multiple heavens and how i spoke to Jesus and Buddha and countless others, who in their right mind would believe me anyway?

So there is no reason to discuss anything "I" have experienced, even if there were loads to talk about. (And if there were it would probably be safe to assume I wouldn't care if readers of some Internet message board did or didn't even know about it because i would be so filled with bliss and love that I doubt I would even care about the Internet, let alone spend time posting on a message board.) That would only be an exercise in "look at me." There have been countless famous mystics who reached the highest possible spiritual levels "inside" and who became "one with God" and who were thereby authorized to share their experiences with others. I just quoted several of them. I just love to talk about such things because it is the focus of my life and what i care most about.

I, personally know many people who have been following this mystical path for many years, some as long as 60 years,  and i have seen firsthand the INCREDIBLE changes that have happened to them all. Changes that are very similar to those reported by countless NDE experiencers, only with the mystics the changes have been MUCH more profound. In comparison to mystical experiences of a higher order, all the NDE stories are mere child's play. Using a baseball analogy, NDE stories are like t-ball while the highest mystical experiences are like the Hall of Fame.

But NDEs are very believable to the average person whereby mystical experiences reported by great mystics seem too incredible to believe. So i saw this story in Newsweek and figured it might hit home for "some" people at least, while most Atheists and non-believers would continue to refuse to believe what i am convinced is not only 100% true, but at every single person's fingertips if they only cared enough to find it. "Seek and ye shall find."  ;)



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#123    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 23 October 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

100% ? there are plenty of negative NDEs to show that "good feelings" are not the only result.

This is incredibly true!!

The "bliss" some NDEers experience, they never realize, is not what they will have when they die. It is but a taste of what is possible, and what every soul can attain if he follows the right path to attain it.

All the reports of NDEs help convince people that God truly exists (in the form of light but not the way many people imagine Him) and that something like heaven actually exists, but only some NDEers come back realizing that if they want to attain anything like they experienced after they die, the only way to do that is via meditation while alive.

The doctor featured in the Newsweek article came back remembering that "lesson from heaven" and he is now heavily involved in meditation and a mystical search to be able to return to that heaven any time he wants (when he meditates). Many NDEers do become mystics when they 'come back" but a lot of NDEers can't recall much of the "incredible truths" they know they were told during their NDE. They just say they were filled with all the knowledge there was, but they couldn't retain much of it.

The hellish NDEs happen to many people too (not as many) and those people always come back experiencing profound changes in their lives and attitudes. They all leave the NDE remembering they need to make great changes but not all remember that the mystical path was the greatest change they needed to make if they wished to return "permanently." But some do remember that and they begin to pursue a mystical path. The Harvard neurologist was but one of them.


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#124    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:17 PM

This is amazing and I hope the guy who was in here earlier arguing that these people weren't really "dead" will take a look and explain again how they aren't dead.


Quote

Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas.

Rev. George Rodonaia held an M.D. and a Ph.D. in neuropathology, and a Ph.D. in the psychology of religion. He delivered a keynote address to the United Nations on the "Emerging Global Spirituality." Before emigrating to the United States from the Soviet Union in 1989, he worked as a research psychiatrist at the University of Moscow. The following is a Dr. Rodonaia's experience in his own words from Phillip Berman's excellent book, The Journey Home.



The rest at -
http://near-death.co...evidence10.html



#125    joc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 26 October 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

This is amazing and I hope the guy who was in here earlier arguing that these people weren't really "dead" will take a look and explain again how they aren't dead.
Would that be me?


Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue.
I don't buy that story for a minute.  Because someone wrote it in a supposed obituary it is now fact?  In fact, many people have been mistakenly declared dead only to wake up in the morgue or in the casket on the way to their funeral.  This sounds more like a 'Jesus complex' to me.  The good Rev  dead 3 days and resurrected just like Jesus.  If he was really dead for 3 days then it isn't a near death experience.  It is a Death experience.

Edited by joc, 27 October 2012 - 12:05 AM.

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once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#126    Habitat

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:05 AM

Mystical experience is only trivial to those that have not experienced it. To those that have, their previous life is what seems trivial.


#127    joc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:12 AM

View PostHabitat, on 27 October 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Mystical experience is only trivial to those that have not experienced it. To those that have, their previous life is what seems trivial.
Being dead is not mystical.

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once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#128    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postjoc, on 27 October 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Would that be me?


Rev. George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue.
I don't buy that story for a minute.  Because someone wrote it in a supposed obituary it is now fact?  In fact, many people have been mistakenly declared dead only to wake up in the morgue or in the casket on the way to their funeral.  This sounds more like a 'Jesus complex' to me.  The good Rev  dead 3 days and resurrected just like Jesus.  If he was really dead for 3 days then it isn't a near death experience.  It is a Death experience.

No it wasn't you. it was some guy who said he was a biologist or something similar.

As for the 3 days dead: Not only does that mean he lived 3 days without water, if he wasn't "really dead," as I said, this guy spent those 3 days in a FREEZER. Anyone who was alive and stuck in a freezer for 3 fays would definitely be dead quickly.

As for it being a "near-death" experience. That is only what people call it. The main premise of this entire thread is that these people actually "die." If they weren't revived then they would have been said to have "died."

It is only called "near-death" because they end up breathing again. It's hard to say someone died if they are currently living.

The definition of "death" and "dying" doesn't allow for anyone to come back from having died. Therefore, because of the "definition" of death, such people have to be defined differently. They are said to have had "near-death experiences". That doesn't mean they didn't actually die. It only means they eventually stopped being dead.


#129    joc

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 27 October 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

No it wasn't you. it was some guy who said he was a biologist or something similar.

As for the 3 days dead: Not only does that mean he lived 3 days without water, if he wasn't "really dead," as I said, this guy spent those 3 days in a FREEZER. Anyone who was alive and stuck in a freezer for 3 fays would definitely be dead quickly.

As for it being a "near-death" experience. That is only what people call it. The main premise of this entire thread is that these people actually "die." If they weren't revived then they would have been said to have "died."

It is only called "near-death" because they end up breathing again. It's hard to say someone died if they are currently living.

The definition of "death" and "dying" doesn't allow for anyone to come back from having died. Therefore, because of the "definition" of death, such people have to be defined differently. They are said to have had "near-death experiences". That doesn't mean they didn't actually die. It only means they eventually stopped being dead.
I don't believe anyone 'stops being dead'.   Perhaps what is needed is a new definition for dead.

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#130    Habitat

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 02:16 AM

I don't think NDE survivors "died", the fact they lived on is proof of that. However, a lot of the normal functioning of the brain is likely shut down, and it fits with the mystic experience of 'shutting down" the ego-centred mind to experience the God Channel ! Question is, why does not the "God Channel" go off the air as well ? Maybe it really is eternal........and not of this world, and this life.


#131    Starhunter

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 11:18 AM

It was once taught that once the electrical signals fail in the brain that it is dead. Well that's true for the detectable signals, but there are many other signals going on from molecule to molecule around receptors, chemical actions by the hundreds of hormones in the brain may continue, but which can only be assessed and remembered once the person is awake.
The power of these hormonal actions is responsible for allowing people to perform wonders of memory and mathematics and all kinds of creativity and new motor skills demonstrated by savants and the impaired.
It seems like these functions appear when the rest of the brain is damaged, of partly shut down, as if there is an interference from electrical impulses. Yet it takes a brain with these normal functions to make sense of what can be produced by the hormonal functions.
An electrical impulse is both triggered and responsible for chemical reactions, and yet there are other chemical reactions which do not require those electrical impulses.
We could go into detail of what the brain is capable of doing, but for now we can safely say that it can generate all these scenes described and interpreted by the patient as 'heaven,' when it fact it is a natural capability of the brain.
But it is a big mistake to call death a door to heaven, when it fact you turn back to dust.


#132    Ellapennella

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:44 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 10 October 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Good article from the new Newsweek:


... Although I considered myself a faithful Christian, I was so more in name than in actual belief. I didn’t begrudge those who wanted to believe that Jesus was more than simply a good man who had suffered at the hands of the world. I sympathized deeply with those who wanted to believe that there was a God somewhere out there who loved us unconditionally. In fact, I envied such people the security that those beliefs no doubt provided. But as a scientist, I simply knew better than to believe them myself.


In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated, I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.
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I know how pronouncements like mine sound to skeptics, so I will tell my story with the logic and language of the scientist I am. ...


Much more:

http://www.thedailyb...-afterlife.html

Thank you for sharing that article . Was such an inspiration ! Beautiful ! God is good always ; Always God is good .


1st. Corinthians  1:19-20
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."   20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?


#133    Ellapennella

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:03 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 23 October 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

That was an idea that many "non-believing" scientists had pushed forward but many NDE experiencers have been doctors and scientists themselves and have completely discredited that idea on MANY grounds, but none more than the fact that they say no amount of endorphins or even morphine or any drug or hormone known to man can even come close to comparing to what is experienced in "the beyond."

Countless mystics have told the same story, and very much like the extraordinary level of "reality" they experience that leaves them feeling as though everyday life is no more than a dream, the bliss experienced, and not even at the higher spiritual levels but much before that, is so incredible that there is no way to make the human mind even grasp it.

The very same thing is told about the incredible love that is experienced. It is said that God is NOTHING but "love and bliss" (as the New Testament also says but the Old Testament completely defies) and when you experience it you are changed forever. It is nothing even remotely like love experienced on earth, even the most incredible and intense love we can ever feel. It is very unconditional and very intense.

I am not allowed to discuss my own experiences but there are countless sources of mystics who have done so, from Christian mystics (who only ever attain the "lower" spiritual realms) to incredibly accomplished mystics such as Rumi, Nanak, Kabir and many others (who achieved the highest possible levels). And they try as best as possible to describe the love and bliss that "defies explanation." Just Google those names along with terms like love and I'm sure there will be much to read.


.

Are these people utilizing substances, other than pure mind energy ? Why do you say that  you are not permitted to speak about your experience ? Who said you can't share your experience ?  God is more than a human experience of what we understand love and bliss to be ...

Edited by Reann, 23 October 2014 - 04:08 PM.





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