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[Merged] Proof of Heaven


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#76    JGirl

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:35 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 12 October 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Why jgirl are you a convert? Or am I missing something from you in the last few years?
i think you're missing something because i am the same as i ever was. :)

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Posted Image.. but as for this house of cards you are building..  a butterfly fart would knock it down.


#77    leotie_indigo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:38 PM

View Postjoc, on 11 October 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

My thought is that there isn't another dimension per say in which 'heaven' exists.  It is happening all the time right here, right now, right in front of us...but we are blind to it, completely and totally blind to it because of our 'conscious' state.  It is like being in a room with several people talking at once...you are engaged in conversation and can't hear anyone else speaking because you are really hearing only yourself.   When we take away the barriers of consciousness...we are able to see what is already there, that which we are blinded to by our conscious states.  Does that make any sense to you?

Not sure if this quote thing will work as I haven't been on here for ages but anyhow...I can actually see where you are coming from here, in terms of the concious mind part. That's how I would describe it, I wouldn't call it heaven as I am not religious in that sense but in terms of it being in the hear and now, I would agree. Time doesn't exist "up there" anyway the same as it is down here so that would tally up.

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#78    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

View Postleotie_indigo, on 12 October 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

Not sure if this quote thing will work as I haven't been on here for ages but anyhow...I can actually see where you are coming from here, in terms of the concious mind part. That's how I would describe it, I wouldn't call it heaven as I am not religious in that sense but in terms of it being in the hear and now, I would agree. Time doesn't exist "up there" anyway the same as it is down here so that would tally up.


The doctor who is the focus of the article featured in this thread, and the audio post too, covers that very "time" issue and describes how it was nonresistant "up there."


#79    Ninhursag

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:00 AM

Lovely article .. I wonder if everybody goes to the same place "over there" and if everybody percieves the things they see in the same way ..

However, I really do believe that our real home is on the other side, and that our lives on earth are just a fieldtrip ..

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#80    joc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

View PostNinhursag, on 13 October 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Lovely article .. I wonder if everybody goes to the same place "over there" and if everybody percieves the things they see in the same way ..

However, I really do believe that our real home is on the other side, and that our lives on earth are just a fieldtrip ..

Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell,  but I have never heard of any.  It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned.  Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene.  Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#81    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

View Postjoc, on 13 October 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell,  but I have never heard of any.  It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned.  Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene.  Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

There are several such reports. I have many somewhere on my computer and if i get a chance I'll try to find them.


#82    joc

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 13 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

There are several such reports. I have many somewhere on my computer and if i get a chance I'll try to find them.


Patients near death see visions of hell
By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent

HERE are several stories about that I found just now.


Over the years, various explanations have been put forward for the positive variety of NDEs, ranging from the effects of medication to the lack of oxygen reaching the brain in its final moments. Such explanations fail to explain, however, the consistency of the experience: hallucinations brought on by drugs or anoxia are typically completely random and senseless. Harder still to understand are reports of NDEs from hospital patients whose ECG traces became completely flat during resuscitation - showing that there was no activity in their brain.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The last sentence here just blows me away.  It tends to lessen the argument I was making before about dead being dead.  I also remember reading an article in a medical journal about a heart surgeon who, in order to perform the surgery, had to first remove every single drop of blood from the patients body.   The blood was swirling around in tubes above the operation table, while the patients body was cooled down to around 54 degrees.  Then when the heart was repaired, the blood was transfused back into his body.  I remember thinking at the time that the old saying 'the life is in the blood' was literally true.   So, in that case, we have a corpse on the table.  No blood, no electrical impulses in the brain.  But life swirling around in tubes overhead.  How bizarre but how telling as well.  It doesn't really make much difference what the brain scan says...if the 'blood' is still alive then life continues.  The point here being that dead isn't dead until the blood dies...but the veil is opened to our viewing when the brain is deprived of the oxygen of the living blood.

Edited by joc, 13 October 2012 - 09:14 PM.

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

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#83    Ninhursag

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 02:02 PM

View Postjoc, on 13 October 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell,  but I have never heard of any.  It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned.  Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene.  Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

I've read some books about life after death and NDE, and people say that there is no such thing as hell. I think so too. I believe it's all just religious propaganda.

In fact, the books I've read said people who had such experiences never even saw some kind of religious person on the other side, no matter what their beliefs were.

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#84    Sakari

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon who claims to have visited the afterlife


Dr. Eben Alexander has taught at Harvard Medical School and has earned a strong reputation as a neurosurgeon. And while Alexander says he's long called himself a Christian, he never held deeply religious beliefs or a pronounced faith in the afterlife............................

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#85    scowl

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:48 AM

Repeat of two threads that were already merged.


#86    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:06 AM

Merged with existing thread

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#87    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:13 AM

I found this:

Quote


This poetic interpretation of his experience is not supported by evidence of any kind. As you correctly point out, coma does not equate to “inactivation of the cerebral cortex” or “higher-order brain functions totally offline” or “neurons of [my] cortex stunned into complete inactivity”. These describe brain death, a one hundred percent lethal condition. There are many excellent scholarly articles that discuss the definitions of coma.

We are not privy to his EEG records, but high alpha activity is common in coma. Also common is “flat” EEG. The EEG can appear flat even in the presence of high activity, when that activity is not synchronous. For example, the EEG flattens in regions involved in direct task processing. This phenomenon is known as event-related desynchronization (hundreds of references).

As is obvious to you, this is truth by authority. Neurosurgeons, however, are rarely well-trained in brain function. Dr. Alexander cuts brains; he does not appear to study them. “There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind—my conscious, inner self—was alive and well. While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness ...” True, science cannot explain brain-free consciousness. Of course, science cannot explain consciousness anyway. In this case, however, it would be parsimonious to reject the whole idea of consciousness in the absence of brain activity. Either his brain was active when he had these dreams, or they are a confabulation of whatever took place in his state of minimally conscious coma.
There are many reports of people remembering dream-like states while in medical coma. They lack consistency, of course, but there is nothing particularly unique in Dr. Alexander’s unfortunate episode.




#88    Shabd Mystic

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:27 AM

Here is a one-hour television special on near-death experiences. It answers the discussion held earler about the definition of "death" and says the patients in one study were cardiac failures, all of whom had been "clinically dead."

BBC - The Day I Died


#89    joc

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostShabd Mystic, on 18 October 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Here is a one-hour television special on near-death experiences. It answers the discussion held earler about the definition of "death" and says the patients in one study were cardiac failures, all of whom had been "clinically dead."

BBC - The Day I Died
I began watching the video, but alas, I am called away once more...I didn't get far but this statement intrigues me:
Paraphrasing:  We use to think the brain was the producer of the mind...but now we are thinking, perhaps, the brain is a reciever..not a producer.

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation

#90    joc

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 04:29 AM

View Postjoc, on 19 October 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I began watching the video, but alas, I am called away once more...I didn't get far but this statement intrigues me:
Paraphrasing:  We use to think the brain was the producer of the mind...but now we are thinking, perhaps, the brain is a reciever..not a producer.
the actual quote ver batum is:

Quote

...till now  the concept was that the brian is the producer of consciousness and the producer of memories, and, when you study near death experiences, you have to say, Well we have to reconsider this concept, that perhaps we should consider the brain not as a producer but as a receiver of conciousness...


Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation




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