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More rights for homeowners against intruders


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#46    Render

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:55 AM

View PostMichelle, on 11 October 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

It's an attitude that we've seen quite often, with people getting downright hostile, about what happens in a country they don't even live in. It has made us a little defensive.

What people, from other countries, fail to realize is that our thieves are very violent and usually have guns. When someone breaks into your house you don't ask questions, because the majority of the time they will kill you as soon as look at you. They don't like to leave witnesses. Our poor, underprivileged minors still manage to find enough money to buy an illegal gun and know they won't spend much time in jail when caught...if they are caught.


So you are agreeing that the US is a much more dangerous and violent place than Europe. And a big part of that is easy access to guns by everyone, even minors.


#47    Catz

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

View PostGhostHunterChickx, on 11 October 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Aw my 2 dogs are just medium sized, but they make lots of noise....which will give me chance to arm myself with something heavy or sharp!!! I certainly ain't afraid of battering someone in my home x
My old dog would have given burglars a fright....he was a German Shepherd x Great Dane...very large with huge teeth!!!
I also had a German Shepherd dog-what a beautiful breed.  The dog was so loving towards us and very protective.  No wonder these dogs are also used in the police.

:tsu:

#48    Catz

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:00 AM

View PostRafterman, on 11 October 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, the European mentality and why they will never understand why self defense is such an important issue in the United States.  If you don't have the option to defend yourself, then you are allowing the intruder to decide whether or not you and your family live or die.  Sure, maybe he just wants your IPad, but maybe not.  Apparently you're comfortable with him being able to make that decision, I am not.

Congratulations to Mr. Grayling and to the people of Britain.
Just last week, an elderly lady was attacked in her home.  Two criminals entered.  The one started to assault her while the other contined with his stealing.  Maybe, the robber left her for dead but she managed to crawl to her room and fetched her gun.  She shot the one dead and wounded the other.  If it wasn't for the gun she would surely have been dead.  If you have a gun, then use it.  You cannot investigate a strange noise at night with the hope that it might just be the neighbours' cat.  Rather be ready-I am not willing to take a chance on my life.  Too many people are killed these days.

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#49    Catz

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

View PostJGirl, on 11 October 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

note to self:
do not rob hasina's place...
;)
i agree as well that a gun owner should know what they're doing, but the fact is that many (too many) do not. you sound like a responsible knowledgeable person where gun operation is concerned, as for your attitude toward your property and all that, well who am i to say. it's your stuff afterall.
as for my stuff...
other than personal items that no one but me would find any value in, i attach no more importance to my 'things' than that they give me pleasure. i certainly earned them and paid for them but i also realize that not everyone is going to respect that, so i have insurance. if you steal my stuff i get new stuff. no problem for me.

It is not just about someone stealing your stuff.  The someone breaking in could have the intentions to rape and kill.  Thats' why I would shoot to kill (if I had a gun).  At this side of the world, people are killed for cellphones or their bicycles etc.  I suppose, that is why I'd rather expect the worse and be prepared..

:tsu:

#50    GhostHunterChickx

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:42 PM

View PostCatz, on 12 October 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

It is not just about someone stealing your stuff.  The someone breaking in could have the intentions to rape and kill.  Thats' why I would shoot to kill (if I had a gun).  At this side of the world, people are killed for cellphones or their bicycles etc.  I suppose, that is why I'd rather expect the worse and be prepared..

yeah, I would have a gun if I could, I hate the fact that I would have to used furniture and fittings to defend myself and my family. Nowadays burglars are coming armed with knives, guns, screwdrivers etc....what use is a bedside lamp against them?
I would totally kill someone to defend my daughter or even one of my animals, I would have no hesitation in hurting someone who breaks into my home!!!!


#51    Michelle

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostRender, on 12 October 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

So you are agreeing that the US is a much more dangerous and violent place than Europe. And a big part of that is easy access to guns by everyone, even minors.

This has been covered over and over again in many other threads. We aren't talking about the US here.


#52    Wyrdlight

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

The issue here is how one defines what is reasonable in a certain situation.

If you ask somone, "is it acceptable and reasaonable to knife a man to death because he tried to punch you?"  The answer the vast majority would give is "no, its not reasonable, the use of force is excessive".

In the cold light of day, between two sober, level headed people knifing a man who tries to punch you is excessive.

But during a break in or somthing similar, the whole point is its not the cold light of day, its not two calm, reasaonable, clear thinking people.

Its likely at night, with one party being utterly terrified and under a massive ammount of stress, fearing for thier life.  The actions of said person can not be evaluated in the same way.  They are not in a normal state of mind, nor are they in a normal, rational situation and so to expect them to respond with calm, clear logic and carefully calculated levels of force is absurd.

In such an extreme situation responding with more force than would normally be considered accepatble is, in my view permisiable.

If somone broke into my house I would be terrified, I dont know their intentions, thier numbers, I dont know if they are armed, I am a human being, and while I can be logical and think (they are likely kids, no real threat) mostly, in times of stress im a bundle of nerves, hormones, instinct and a fix of fear and agression.  In such a situation i would not act as I normally would.  Nor would I expect anyone else to.


#53    little_dreamer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

^^ what Wyrdlight said ^^.   You are operating with survival instinct and not a strictly rational manner if someone breaks in at 3 AM.  Someone has invaded your territory.  Grab your weapon, then call the police if you can do so quietly.  But still be prepared to defend yourself.

One thing in my favor - there are very few things worth more than $100 each in my home.

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#54    tipotep

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 04:49 AM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 11 October 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Being able to defend yourself legally is not a good idea? So you think perhaps you should be legally oblidged not to defend yourself?

The fact is that person shouldn't be in your home, and if they wasn't they would be at risk of getting hurt. They are the ones breaking the law. And what if the intruder isn't a burglar? What if they they're a rapist? You need the right to be able to defend yourself, other people, and your home.

I think in general most people would do what they would do regardless of the law, and in that respect I don't think much has changed. But on the downside it might mean burglars could come prepared to "defend" tthemselves against their victims. This is when we have fully fledged Game of Thrones style sword fights in the middle of suburbia.

I'm an advocate of attacking anyone who comes into your house, but I would not suggest you stand between a burglar and his escape route. Cornered animals become dangerous. Your main aim should be to get that person out, not keep them in.

I got a good LOL at your Game of Thrones comment , I have a Longclaw replica hanging on my wall at home & If some dirt bag breaks into my house I will shorten them by the length of their head !

I always pay my debts :tu:

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#55    tyrant lizard

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

View Posttipotep, on 15 October 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

I got a good LOL at your Game of Thrones comment , I have a Longclaw replica hanging on my wall at home & If some dirt bag breaks into my house I will shorten them by the length of their head !

I always pay my debts :tu:

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#56    Hasina

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

View Postlittle_dreamer, on 14 October 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

^^ what Wyrdlight said ^^.   You are operating with survival instinct and not a strictly rational manner if someone breaks in at 3 AM.  Someone has invaded your territory.  Grab your weapon, then call the police if you can do so quietly.  But still be prepared to defend yourself.

One thing in my favor - there are very few things worth more than $100 each in my home.
I don't quite agree, personally I'd never give someone a chance to harm me if they've already broken a law to enter my home, I'm gonna break bones if they do that. The police in the US are only there to protect and serve the law, not the citizens, it's our right to protect ourselves.

Edited by Hasina, 15 October 2012 - 02:50 PM.

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#57    GhostHunterChickx

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

View PostCatz, on 12 October 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I also had a German Shepherd dog-what a beautiful breed.  The dog was so loving towards us and very protective.  No wonder these dogs are also used in the police.

yeah he was a big softy really, his bark was probably worse than his bite....but he hated it when strangers came to the door even if they knocked etc. He was very wary of people he didn't like, I think they have a sixth sense about people, that's why I love having animals around x He never bit anyone by the way, well only me when I tried to get him off my mams dog when they were fighting....but his bark would definitely make you think twice.
My new dog Sam is getting that way too, I think the neighbour has scared him in some way cos he hates him...growls ,barks and gets his hackles up, so I can't see anyone coming in with him barking!!





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