132 replies to this topic

[Paracelse]

Professor T, on 13 October 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Control Dramas..
How people control others when they need to be controlled or want to get their own way?

http://www.stopthero....com/Drama.html

These are the 4 ways people steal your energy.

1. POOR ME
The “Poor Me” is a passive-aggressive and the most secretly manipulative of the four styles. This person will portray a false sense of being a victim in order to appeal to another person’s compassion, guilt or obligation through the manipulation of their sympathies.

2. ALOOF
The “Aloof” is just a less passive and manipulative than the “Poor Me,” but more secretive. The “Aloof” approach is to create a vagueness and facade around themselves, forcing an undeserved investment of energy to gain information, commitment and emotion which should normally be shared in a straight-up, direct way.

3. INTERROGATOR
More aggressive but less manipulative than the two passive-secretive types, the “Interrogator” uses this style of drama by evaluating and asking questions with the specific purpose of finding something wrong or corrupt.

4. INTIMIDATOR
“Intimidators” are the most aggressive of the four types. Their presence is well stated and felt and there is a threatening air of danger conveyed from them. They are unpredictable and can threaten, use harsh words and abusive actions uncontrollably. They will demonstrate a capacity for rage or violence.

Also,
If both your parents are Intimidators or Interrogators chances are, you are a Poor me or Aloof.
If both your parent are Poor Me's or Aloof, chances are, you are an Intimidator or Interrogator.

This is from the book "The Celestine Prophecy"

So, discuss...

What happen when you have to care for a person who's is a poor me as well as a manipulator (actually those two I've noticed appear to be the same) and an interrogator?   And the worse part is she's the person who also raised you?

[Knight Of Shadows]

Paracelse, on 15 October 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

What happen when you have to care for a person who's is a poor me as well as a manipulator (actually those two I've noticed appear to be the same) and an interrogator?   And the worse part is she's the person who also raised you?

ohh hush you know she's an angel and you love her to bits .. don't lie !

[Paracelse]

Knight Of Shadows, on 15 October 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

ohh hush you know she's an angel and you love her to bits .. don't lie !

You're still alive ???? without vodka and cigs????

[Knight Of Shadows]

Paracelse, on 15 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

You're still alive ???? without vodka and cigs????

well it's complicated .. am not at home anymore it gotten ugly but moved temporarly to another place
where there is plenty of cigarettes and vodka too ! the only thing seems to be missing is cash ! ... but am handling
so your angel is stealing your energy eh ? come on in that age i don't think you got any energy left in those old bones

[Mr Right Wing]

Professor T, on 13 October 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Control Dramas..
How people control others when they need to be controlled or want to get their own way?

http://www.stopthero....com/Drama.html

These are the 4 ways people steal your energy.

1. POOR ME
The “Poor Me” is a passive-aggressive and the most secretly manipulative of the four styles. This person will portray a false sense of being a victim in order to appeal to another person’s compassion, guilt or obligation through the manipulation of their sympathies.

2. ALOOF
The “Aloof” is just a less passive and manipulative than the “Poor Me,” but more secretive. The “Aloof” approach is to create a vagueness and facade around themselves, forcing an undeserved investment of energy to gain information, commitment and emotion which should normally be shared in a straight-up, direct way.

3. INTERROGATOR
More aggressive but less manipulative than the two passive-secretive types, the “Interrogator” uses this style of drama by evaluating and asking questions with the specific purpose of finding something wrong or corrupt.

4. INTIMIDATOR
“Intimidators” are the most aggressive of the four types. Their presence is well stated and felt and there is a threatening air of danger conveyed from them. They are unpredictable and can threaten, use harsh words and abusive actions uncontrollably. They will demonstrate a capacity for rage or violence.

Also,
If both your parents are Intimidators or Interrogators chances are, you are a Poor me or Aloof.
If both your parent are Poor Me's or Aloof, chances are, you are an Intimidator or Interrogator.

This is from the book "The Celestine Prophecy"

So, discuss...

This is actually a debate on narcissism and theres two main types.

Defective self-image
These are the interrogators and intimidators you mention. For them parental abuse and neglect led to them developing a defective self-image -
1. They never moved beyond seeing themselves as defective.
2. They are hyper-sensitive to anything which makes them feel defective.
3. Their hyper-sensitivity gives out the impression they're self-absorbed and lacking in empathy.

Whenever this type of narcissist encounters another person who makes them feel defective they try to destroy them or undermine them as a way of making themselves feel better -
1. Violance - The high school bully who beat others up.
2. Destruction - The guy/gal who keys your sports car.
3. Sabotage - The employee who deliberately sabotages others work.
4. Undermine - The employee who tries to find things wrong with other people.
5. Delusion - The one that attaches false attributes to you such as labelling you as a weirdo.
6. Friends - They only allow similar self-defectives to be friends with them.

Self-esteem Seeking
These are the 'poor me' people you mention. For them their parents wrapped them up in so much cotton wool that they never encountered anything to dent their egos -
1. They see themselves as perfect and seek out people who make them feel perfect.
2. They cant cope with anything that destroys their illusion of perfection because they never learnt how.

This type of person seeks narcissistic supply from others which means they like people who make them feel perfect. The 'poor me' attitude is an hidden attempt to get people to provide it. They try to destroy and undermine those who wont supply it -
1. Alienation - They will alienate others that dont provide narcissistic supply.
2. Favourites - Those who provide it become the persons favourites.
3. Friends - Both them and their friends are the type who spend their days kissing each others behinds lol/

Number 1s are dangerous and number 2s will discriminate against you in the workplace unless you provide what they want.

[Professor T]

Beany, on 15 October 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Lessons about how we let people steal our energy from us would be helpful, or lessons about how to keep people from stealing our energy. IMHO, I think most of us are complicit in letting others suck our energy, we allow it to happen, which is unhealthy for everyone involved.

I think this is the best way to prevent or diffuse these types of attack..

Quote

1. POOR ME
Angry confrontation is ineffective as it just perpetuates the victimization and facade by giving the “Poor Me” and their supporters more to justify and fuel to re-enforce the drama.
The best response is to avoid being thrown off balance by their ploys and avoid buying into their guilt. Keep a sense of perspective and emotional distance while maintaining priorities and boundaries. Confront their games and have a clearly stated and firm position. Evaluate the real extent, need or desire that is behind their manipulation and only give the appropriate amount of compassion.
2. ALOOF
These are individuals who are wounded by a perceived betrayal of their expectations. They believe that essentially no one can be trusted fully. After having exchanged trust and intimacy with someone, they may suddenly turn against the very person they were getting close to. The most effective way to deal with this style is by avoiding the defensive behaviors. Indulging their behaviors will only fuel their anxieties, fears, and mistrust. The key is to call the individual on their behavior and underlying fears. Typically, the individual will either admit to the observations or they will take the extreme step of severing the relationship.
3. INTERROGATOR
Don’t be drawn into a never ending cycle of accusations and explanations with the “Interrogator”. This is a tactic meant to perpetuate confusion and uncertainty. Avoid defensive behaviors like cowering back and giving in; recognize that the questioning is a set-up to prove their fears or perceptions. Confront the reasoning or intent behind the questioning. The “Interrogator” will then likely re-frame the questioning in a way that is more genuine to what he or she really needs to know. Don’t surrender to anger or frustration. The key is to be patient, moderate and confidently firm about your integrity and character.
4. INTIMIDATOR
“Intimidators” often attack when others are least able or unwilling to confront them. The best response for dealing with them is to 1) name the game, 2) consider whether the accusations are right and correct and 3) refuse to be knocked “off balance”. Where possible, create distance from the individual to minimize control but stay close enough to know what he or she doing. When the “Intimidator” recognizes that the tactics can’t overcome resolution or haven’t invoked fear, the individual may get uglier and plan a more dramatic move. Patience, control and persistence will eventually outlast the “Intimidator”.

[Professor T]

Paracelse, on 15 October 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

What happen when you have to care for a person who's is a poor me as well as a manipulator (actually those two I've noticed appear to be the same) and an interrogator?   And the worse part is she's the person who also raised you?

hmmmm, tricky..
I quess the first step is to evaluate if the Poor me genuinely needs that time/effort/energy from you.

Quote

1. POOR ME
Angry confrontation is ineffective as it just perpetuates the victimization and facade by giving the “Poor Me” and their supporters more to justify and fuel to re-enforce the drama.
The best response is to avoid being thrown off balance by their ploys and avoid buying into their guilt. Keep a sense of perspective and emotional distance while maintaining priorities and boundaries. Confront their games and have a clearly stated and firm position. Evaluate the real extent, need or desire that is behind their manipulation and only give the appropriate amount of compassion.

[Professor T]

Mr Right Wing, on 15 October 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

This is actually a debate on narcissism and theres two main types.

No, it's actually a debate on Control dramas.
But thanks for your input anyway.

[Paracelse]

Professor T, on 15 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

hmmmm, tricky..
I quess the first step is to evaluate if the Poor me genuinely needs that time/effort/energy from you.

Tell you what over the years I've learned to become quit the manipulator myself ... but just toward that particular person, not anyone else.   In fact in any argument, even if I have all the tools to win, I back out.  It's my aloofness.

[Beany]

Paracelse, on 15 October 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

What happen when you have to care for a person who's is a poor me as well as a manipulator (actually those two I've noticed appear to be the same) and an interrogator?   And the worse part is she's the person who also raised you?

Ah, the tyranny of the weak, that's a tough one. It's all take take take on the victim's part, and give give give for the other party. My approach is to try to consistently hold these people capable & competent. To buy into their victimhood causes them harm by reinforcing and validating the victim state. Tell someone often enough that they are capable and competent to make their own decisions, and one of two things will happen. They'll eventually change their way or look for someone else to victimize.

[Mr Right Wing]

Professor T, on 15 October 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

No, it's actually a debate on Control dramas.
But thanks for your input anyway.

Yes but the cause on their side is narcissism.

To defuse a narcissist you either -
1. Give them their narcissistic supply.
2. Play yourself down and fall into place below them.
3. Wait, take notes about what they say and times and witnesses, then when you have 3 incidences go complain about their attitude.

There is no other way to deal with a narcissist. It takes years of therapy to change them. If you look beyond the apparent behaviour of the four types of people you mentioned you'll see their behaviour is to make them feel good about themselves by using you or eliminating you.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 16 October 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Amy the Mighty]

Nothing about this is metaphysics. Poor Me, Aloof, Interrogator, Intimidator - these are all styles of learned behaviours, not psychic techniques. Some people never learn how to be responsible for their own emotions, and fall into the habit of demanding that other people feed their need for approval and emotional regulation. These behaviour styles are techniques that these individuals use to trap other people into attending to their emotional dysregulation, and feeding their need for approval. When you're not feeling at your emotional peak, you feel really good when another person authentically engages with you, understands how you're feeling, and acknowledges how you're feeling. For some people who have difficulty emotionally self-regulating, or have limited skills in managing their own emotional state, they aren't able to make themselves feel emotionally "better" when they're down, and they rely, intentionally or not, on the emotional reassurance and attention of others to restore themselves. This inability to manage your emotional state is a characteristic of some personality disorders, and can also be a post traumatic symptom.

When people use these techniques on you, you feel emotionally drained, because when you attend to another person emotionally in a focused and intense way, you are burning a whole lot of kilojoules. It's intellectually demanding because you're processing what they're saying, and intellectually processing your response. Ask emergency service workers, counselors, psychologists - anyone whose work involves close and intense periods of emotional attending to a patient/client, and they will tell you how exhausting it is. It's so exhausting, that in those fields of work, emotional burn-out (emotional exhaustion) can completely incapacitate people. When you burn out, your brain's ability to attend to, and process information, completely shuts down. It is utterly scary, but also a very predictable protective mechanism when you've been overwhelmed with actual and vicarious trauma.

These styles are merely communication techniques that some people use to get other people to manage their emotional state. A lot of the time, the people who engage in these behaviours, don't realise what they are doing, and don't realise that they aren't managing their emotional state in a healthy way. If you notice that someone is communicating with you in a way that makes you manage and pamper their feelings, just be a grown-up and point it out to them. They might deny it, and be embarrassed, but the odds are that no-one's ever told them, and they never even realised it. Whatever you do, don't deny or diminish your own instincts that you're being used to make someone feel happy. There's nothing mystical or magical about it.

[QuiteContrary]

How to deal with the pathological Poor Me manipulator? Don't.

[Paracelse]

Beany, on 16 October 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Ah, the tyranny of the weak, that's a tough one. It's all take take take on the victim's part, and give give give for the other party. My approach is to try to consistently hold these people capable & competent. To buy into their victimhood causes them harm by reinforcing and validating the victim state. Tell someone often enough that they are capable and competent to make their own decisions, and one of two things will happen. They'll eventually change their way or look for someone else to victimize.

Most of the time she has no one else to victimize

[Professor T]

Mr Right Wing, on 16 October 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yes but the cause on their side is narcissism.

To defuse a narcissist you either -
1. Give them their narcissistic supply.
2. Play yourself down and fall into place below them.
3. Wait, take notes about what they say and times and witnesses, then when you have 3 incidences go complain about their attitude.

There is no other way to deal with a narcissist. It takes years of therapy to change them. If you look beyond the apparent behaviour of the four types of people you mentioned you'll see their behaviour is to make them feel good about themselves by using you or eliminating you.

Amy the Mighty, on 16 October 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Nothing about this is metaphysics. Poor Me, Aloof, Interrogator, Intimidator - these are all styles of learned behaviours, not psychic techniques. Some people never learn how to be responsible for their own emotions, and fall into the habit of demanding that other people feed their need for approval and emotional regulation. These behaviour styles are techniques that these individuals use to trap other people into attending to their emotional dysregulation, and feeding their need for approval. When you're not feeling at your emotional peak, you feel really good when another person authentically engages with you, understands how you're feeling, and acknowledges how you're feeling. For some people who have difficulty emotionally self-regulating, or have limited skills in managing their own emotional state, they aren't able to make themselves feel emotionally "better" when they're down, and they rely, intentionally or not, on the emotional reassurance and attention of others to restore themselves. This inability to manage your emotional state is a characteristic of some personality disorders, and can also be a post traumatic symptom.

When people use these techniques on you, you feel emotionally drained, because when you attend to another person emotionally in a focused and intense way, you are burning a whole lot of kilojoules. It's intellectually demanding because you're processing what they're saying, and intellectually processing your response. Ask emergency service workers, counselors, psychologists - anyone whose work involves close and intense periods of emotional attending to a patient/client, and they will tell you how exhausting it is. It's so exhausting, that in those fields of work, emotional burn-out (emotional exhaustion) can completely incapacitate people. When you burn out, your brain's ability to attend to, and process information, completely shuts down. It is utterly scary, but also a very predictable protective mechanism when you've been overwhelmed with actual and vicarious trauma.

These styles are merely communication techniques that some people use to get other people to manage their emotional state. A lot of the time, the people who engage in these behaviours, don't realise what they are doing, and don't realise that they aren't managing their emotional state in a healthy way. If you notice that someone is communicating with you in a way that makes you manage and pamper their feelings, just be a grown-up and point it out to them. They might deny it, and be embarrassed, but the odds are that no-one's ever told them, and they never even realised it. Whatever you do, don't deny or diminish your own instincts that you're being used to make someone feel happy. There's nothing mystical or magical about it.

As I said earlier, I hummed and ha'd about where to start this thread because there is a Psycological aspect to this as well. But not being a psycologist myself and only having a basic understanding of this I cannot really comment on these points, which are very interesting and no doupt based on a lot of study and truth. thanks for your input..
The discussion here, regards energy, feelings, and identifying these 4 control dramas that people use as well as identying our own use of these methods and how to stop or prevent their use. Self analysis, naming the game when people use them against us, Identifying when they are in use and pulling people up when they do try it on is why I posted this here in this section.. We are exposed to control dramas every day from when we switch on the tele to when we innocently use them on others unaware of the harnfull effect they cause to a persons energy.

Years of "therapy" does not have to be the only solution. Empowering people around these energy thieves to understand these control dramas and counter them humanely and productively is as good a cure as any therapy could offer.

I get the impression, Amy the Mighty, that you are ill-pleased that this funky energy thieft idea is nothing mysical or magical, and that it is purely a phycological and chemical reaction.. To that I would answer that not everyone sees the world the same, even though it is.. Respect that.. And thank's for your comments. I know a few people who are in the Emergency services, they are very unique people.