84 replies to this topic

[regeneratia]

No infant has ever been aborted.

"The term infant is typically applied to young children between the ages of 1 month and 12 months; however, definitions may vary between birth and 3 years of age. A newborn is an infant who is only hours, days, or up to a few weeks old. In medical contexts, newborn or neonate (from Latin, neonatus, newborn) refers to an infant in the first 28 days after birth;^[1] the term applies to premature infants, postmature infants, and full term infants. Before birth, the term fetus is used."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant

Ryu, on 15 October 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

This whole "karma" thing really needs to die.
Does anyone really think about how silly it really is to postulate that any problems you have in life, any defects you may have been born with are all because of something you supposedly did in a previous life? To make matters worse no one even remembers this so-called "crime" either.

I even read somewhere where child abuse was rationalized with the same mindset....who learns anything from aborting their infant? The infant sure won't for obvious reasons and I doubt the parents walk away with anything except that they did what they felt they needed to do..end of story.

Whatever function abortion serves, it certainly hasn't been to teach anyone anything.

[regeneratia]

I have, and my sentiments are far differnt than yours.
I have had one abortion, one stillbirth and one live birth. I KNOW the sorrow of losing a wanted child. I KNOW the factors in making a decision to have an abortion. I believe it is all a matter of personal perspective.

I learned a huge amount from my abortion. I learned a huge amount from having a stillbirth. And I am still learning, with far larger amounts, what it is to have a child to raise, to feed and clothe, to school (public schools are the worst part of motherhood!!), to watch as they beomce their own person and pull away from the deep affection that you can and want to give them, to pull away to learn to stand on their own two feet.

Beckys_Mom, on 15 October 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

That is insane !!! ..........   Have you any idea what a mother who looses their baby  goes through? ............ Do you know what it is like  to get brought into hospital.. and give birth to a dead child?   To lay there in fear and have to be pinned down by nurses  while you panic...knowing you cannot feed and hold the baby you have just delivered? .You cry and yell out   please god  give her back to me...take me instead  !!!!....Have you got the faintest  clue what  you just suggested? ....   Have you got any clue what many fathers out there  have to go through  ?

You find it so easy to sit on your backside and  claim it is a lesson in life..  I think you need a lesson in life..  A lesson in listening and learning more about what people who goes through these things feel .. Try talking to mothers who have suffered these tragic losses .. Get your eyes opened..  and... What  lesson would an infant need?  For what reason?   That does not make any sense... It is  pointless

No mother should ever have to go through it.. and no infant should either. .but that's life... We take it and it's not nice but we grasp at anything to try and move on..

Edited by regeneratia, 15 October 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[markdohle]

regeneratia, on 15 October 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

No sorrow here. Only personal empowerment.
Shakespeare says that there is no right or wrong: only THINKING makes it so.

I am no ones judge my friend....just speaking my mind.

Peace
mark

[regeneratia]

markdohle, on 16 October 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

I am no ones judge my friend....just speaking my mind.

Peace
mark

I know, friend. Not worried. You?

[notoverrated]

my dad wore protection and my mom was on the pill, lesson or not NOTHING was going to stop me O.o

[Hasina]

regeneratia, on 15 October 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

I have always found that wisedom is recognizing that there really is no right or wrong. There are only different sequela of consequences. Wisedom is where the two opposites meet.

When I met a psychic in Rosslyn chapel once, following a heart-breaking, soul-numbing stillbirth, she said that the soul of my child simply changed her mind. Of course, oh man, was THAT a life lesson. Why would an abortion be any different?

My abortion was one of the most empowering days of my life. While I named that pregnancy, and studied it's gestation process, felt affection for my changing body, it was not in MY life plan at the time. It was the day I woke up and realized that this is MY life, and that I am no longer an appendage of my parents. I learned from that day, massively in an entire kaleidescope of lessons. I totally agree with mfrmboy, that it is a substantial lesson in life. I have learned to love and let go early on in my life. Suffereing comes from loving and holding on to that love for fear you will lose it.

It is said that the soul merely visits on occasion during a pregnancy, and sometimes doesn't attach to the body even months after birth. I believe that there is indeed a communication between the pregnant and the visiting soul.

Abortion is a viable option. Abortion is a responsible option. Abortion is a reasonable decision.

Abortion should be medically-safe and legal to anyone for whatever reason they personally deem appropriate.

I have nothing against abortions. I've argued for it on the site. Personally though, the only time I would get one is if I were raped.

I dislike this notion that souls only show up on occasion during pregnancy or there are karmic reasons for why that baby will never come to be, or the soul chose' not to be born. A baby can't choose that shizz, your body may have rejected the pregnancy, it happens and there's nothing wrong with that, it's natural.

Yes, it is your body and your life, but it's that babies body and life you get to make descisions for, and you decided that it's not a viable human being, so gone it goes, cause it didn't fit into your life plan.

Thinking a 'soul' doesn't take during pregnancy is a nice and pretty excuse to have an abortion, but it's a silly fairy tale of a reason. A woman is having a human baby, who will grow up and have the possibility of having hopes and dreams. Inane excuses like 'oh the baby wouldn't fit into my life' isn't reasonable, it's selfish.

I dislike to agree with the Republicans but I do think abortion should only be for when you've been raped, a result of incest or it's a danger to the mother's life. A baby is not some tattoo you can regret later and get rid or an unsightly mole you just want gone. It's a human life.

As a Libertarian though, I know people are just going to have sex whenever they want, not use safe sex or when that fails decided against owning up to the idiocy of what they've done. So yes abortion should be available for whatever reason, but don't pretty it up with excuses like 'the souls not there' or 'there's a karmic reason', be an adult, you're getting rid of a human.

Edited by Hasina, 16 October 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[Beany]

Tarnibritan, on 15 October 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Hmm well i was faced with this decision this year. And If the things we go through are meant to teach us something, well doesnt that all depend on whether we choose to learn from our experiances or not... But abortion is entirely up to a person- If the fetus wasnt meant to be then it wouldnt of happened in the first place surely. In the end its whether the mother feels like she can or cant go through with it-its free will not fate that determines these choices. Hope my rant makes sense

That wasn't a rant, it sounds entirely sane. It would be wonderful if the dialogue were more about ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies than about abortion, but that's entirely too sane, as well.

[Orcseeker]

I know of some young women who could be considered promiscuous and disrespectful of themselves. They seem quite humbled whether they keep the baby or abort it. One who had an abortion said she couldnt do it again and was obviously quite upset by the experience. It certainly changes them for the better though I'd say. Having a baby is a lesson to everyone, aborted or not.

[regeneratia]

Obviously you are not reading the same books I am. Many here believe your (hypotethical)  spirit, maybe your soul, is totally independent of your body, that comes and goes at will. IOW, the real you is not locked into the body but may fly free at any time for any reason.
Just remember the concept: "These things I do, you can do and more."

I think this is the thing that irks me most about the anti-choice movement, which I recognize you are not a part of: they do NOT at all address matters of the soul, or matters of the spirit. They are just so hung up on the biological, but can't seem to address the spiritual or soulful. They don't touch the topic of your own gloriously body-transient spark of the source with a ten-foot pole.

Hasina, on 16 October 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

I have nothing against abortions. I've argued for it on the site. Personally though, the only time I would get one is if I were raped.

I dislike this notion that souls only show up on occasion during pregnancy or there are karmic reasons for why that baby will never come to be, or the soul chose' not to be born. A baby can't choose that shizz, your body may have rejected the pregnancy, it happens and there's nothing wrong with that, it's natural.

Yes, it is your body and your life, but it's that babies body and life you get to make descisions for, and you decided that it's not a viable human being, so gone it goes, cause it didn't fit into your life plan.

Thinking a 'soul' doesn't take during pregnancy is a nice and pretty excuse to have an abortion, but it's a silly fairy tale of a reason. A woman is having a human baby, who will grow up and have the possibility of having hopes and dreams. Inane excuses like 'oh the baby wouldn't fit into my life' isn't reasonable, it's selfish.

I dislike to agree with the Republicans but I do think abortion should only be for when you've been raped, a result of incest or it's a danger to the mother's life. A baby is not some tattoo you can regret later and get rid or an unsightly mole you just want gone. It's a human life.

As a Libertarian though, I know people are just going to have sex whenever they want, not use safe sex or when that fails decided against owning up to the idiocy of what they've done. So yes abortion should be available for whatever reason, but don't pretty it up with excuses like 'the souls not there' or 'there's a karmic reason', be an adult, you're getting rid of a human.

Edited by regeneratia, 16 October 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[Hasina]

regeneratia, on 16 October 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Obviously you are not reading the same books I am. Many here believe your spirit, maybe your soul, is totally independent of your body, that comes and goes at will. IOW, the real you is not locked into the body but may fly free at any time for any reason.
Just remember the concept: "These things I do, you can do and more."

Well, if a book's enough to convince you to do such things, good on ya.

[regeneratia]

Hasina, on 16 October 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Well, if a book's enough to convince you to do such things, good on ya.

Not merely one book on the topic of the soul, but well over a hundred of them, perhaps hundreds of them, including  the Bahgavad Gita, Jung himself,  and Rumi to name just a few,  throughout my entire reading lifetime (I am 52 years old, seems long to me). Do I seem like I am unread from the previous post? Did you understand everything I was trying to say then?

Interesting again is that the matter of the soul and spirit regarding the abortion issue is not addressed. Few, if any, will address it.

Edited by regeneratia, 16 October 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[regeneratia]

Orcseeker, on 16 October 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

I know of some young women who could be considered promiscuous and disrespectful of themselves. They seem quite humbled whether they keep the baby or abort it. One who had an abortion said she couldnt do it again and was obviously quite upset by the experience. It certainly changes them for the better though I'd say. Having a baby is a lesson to everyone, aborted or not.

I can see how they would be humbled. I just took it the other direction, into self-awareness and empowerment.
Just remember, guys can be loose gooses too.

It was hard to break the umbilical cord from the parents for me.  They decided everything for me. they bought everything for me. I didn't work. I just had to be an angel in the public eyes. When I left their house and away from their area of influence, I had to learn a lot of stuff on my own, via my own mistakes. I can see why they would be humbled. But I never went to my parents for help with the abortion. I did it on my own, via my own newly-discovered decision-making process. That is why it was an empowering day. I cut the parental umbilical cord that day and finally took responsibility for myself.

Edited by regeneratia, 16 October 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[little_dreamer]

regeneratia, on 15 October 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

...
When I met a psychic in Rosslyn chapel once, following a heart-breaking, soul-numbing stillbirth, she said that the soul of my child simply changed her mind. Of course, oh man, was THAT a life lesson. Why would an abortion be any different?
...

I don't understand what was meant by "the soul of my child simply changed her mind."   But I respect your decision.

[regeneratia]

little_dreamer, on 16 October 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

I don't understand what was meant by "the soul of my child simply changed her mind."   But I respect your decision.

I think the circumstances that developed around that pregnancy were not going to allow her to fulfill her mission. OR that, as spirits are wont to do, just wanted to remain where she was. Why not? Life on earth is one of the hardest lessons the spirit is said to go thru. Even if she chickened out, I can forgive her.

My abortion, on the other hand, was totally a wake-up call, so to speak, at the age of 21. And dam did I wake up! I didn't have another pregnancy, that I know of, for almost twenty years, the next one came at the age of 39, the stillbirth.

Edited by regeneratia, 16 October 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

I am not going to beat myself up  asking - Was she ready to be born?....  Did she get taken by angels or spirits?.... Did she back out at the last hurdle? .Did I do something wrong?, If so what was it? ...   If I keep asking and asking over and over, it goes in a bunch of maybe this, maybe that circles... Truth is? I have no idea why I lost her and she didn't make it... All I know is.. if there is an afterlife.. I hope one day to see her again...   I didn't learn any lesson and I cannot see how she would either..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 16 October 2012 - 10:08 PM.