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Liberalism and Scientology


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#1    Order66

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:06 PM

I see parallels between how the Church of Scientology recruits members and how people become indoctrinated into liberalism.

When Scientology reaches out to new members, it is under the pretense of being a self-help group. 'Attend our seminar and we'll make your business more productive' they might say for example. It was first introduced to Tom Cruise as a cure for dyslexia.  

When liberals introduce their agenda, the real end game is never revealed at first. When Obama talks about the economy, he more or less sounds like a moderate conservate. We're going to help businesses grow, we're going to create more jobs, etc etc. Standard innocuous arguments that nobody would disagree with, even though he would make it sound like he's the only one who would ever make such crazy suggestions.

Only when members are fully engrossed in the Church of Scientology, only when it controls every aspect of their lives, do they come forth with the aliens and spacejets and volcanoes.

Similarly, it is only when liberals are firmly entrenched in power that they reveal the whole radical agenda. Their solution to economic problems is a redistribution of wealth and class warfare. What they described as freedom and civil rights comes at the cost of extensive government control and intrusion into aspect of your life.

What do you think?

Edited by Vein Capital, 17 October 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#2    questionmark

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

Liberalism is not a sect, else the founding fathers would have written it as obligatory in the constitution. The "conservatives" at the time wanted to remain British citizens.

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#3    GreenmansGod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:23 PM

It might help you to know what the definition of Liberal is, which has nothing to do with what  you said. You are using the Fox news definition and you are being duped.




Quote


lib·er·al
   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/  Show IPA

adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers
http://dictionary.re.../browse/liberal


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#4    HerNibs

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

View PostVein Capital, on 17 October 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

I see parallels between how the Church of Scientology recruits members and how people become indoctrinated into liberalism.

When Scientology reaches out to new members, it is under the pretense of being a self-help group. 'Attend our seminar and we'll make your business more productive' they might say for example. It was first introduced to Tom Cruise as a cure for dyslexia.  

When liberals introduce their agenda, the real end game is never revealed at first. When Obama talks about the economy, he more or less sounds like a moderate conservate. We're going to help businesses grow, we're going to create more jobs, etc etc. Standard innocuous arguments that nobody would disagree with, even though he would make it sound like he's the only one who would ever make such crazy suggestions.

Only when members are fully engrossed in the Church of Scientology, only when it controls every aspect of their lives, do they come forth with the aliens and spacejets and volcanoes.

Similarly, it is only when liberals are firmly entrenched in power that they reveal the whole radical agenda. Their solution to economic problems is a redistribution of wealth and class warfare. What they described as freedom and civil rights comes at the cost of extensive government control and intrusion into aspect of your life.

What do you think?

Nope, disagree.  

Your idea of a secret endgame is just an opinion of what you believe is some kind of corrupt politics.  As a "liberal", I don't believe in distribution or class warfare.  IMO it's just a negative generalization of extremes.  No different than characterizing all conservatives as extreme Teapartiers looking to put women back into the kitchen and only letting land owning white men hold any rights.  

Scientology on the other hand has documented goals, beliefs and doctrines.  Also, leaving Scientology can be detrimental to your health and well being due to threats, intimidation and despicable practices.

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#5    Order66

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 17 October 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

It might help you to know what the definition of Liberal is, which has nothing to do with what  you said. You are using the Fox news definition and you are being duped.

Actually that definition you posted is more or less what I meant:

Quote

adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.

"progressive" would probably be a better term than "liberal", that's the term the left usually uses in describing itself.

"favorable to progress or reform" is a little watered down, but this is how I would describe Obama's radical agenda. I believe he wants to tear down the capitalist system in America and it re-create it with a socialist/communist economy in which everything is under the thumb of the federal government. He hides this agenda, however. He's not going to go on national television and express his seething hatred of capitalism. He almost did when he said "you didn't build that!" and look how people reacted to that. He has to make it more palatable by giving the pretense of a moderate conservative.

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#6    None of the above

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

View PostVein Capital, on 17 October 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Actually that definition you posted is more or less what I meant:



"progressive" would probably be a better term than "liberal", that's the term the left usually uses in describing itself.

"favorable to progress or reform" is a little watered down, but this is how I would describe Obama's radical agenda. I believe he wants to tear down the capitalist system in America and it re-create it with a socialist/communist economy in which everything is under the thumb of the federal government. He hides this agenda, however. He's not going to go on national television and express his seething hatred of capitalism. He almost did when he said "you didn't build that!" and look how people reacted to that. He has to make it more palatable by giving the pretense of a moderate conservative.

I read this and you sound a bit um, how to put this nicely.... Bat pooo crazy.
So there's one similarity with Scientology.

If you let me run your country you'd know for darn tooting sure that Obama is a 'moderate conservative'.


#7    Neognosis

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:44 PM

Quote

I see parallels between how the Church of Scientology recruits members and how people become indoctrinated into liberalism.

That's because you are trying as HARD as you can to demonize the things you think you disagree with.


#8    GreenmansGod

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

This could go on forever.  Got any links to support your views other than Fox news. Otherwise you got nothing.

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pro·gres·sive
   [pruh-gres-iv] Show IPA

adjective
1.
favoring or advocating progress,  change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters: a progressive mayor.

2.
making progress  toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.

3.
characterized by such progress,  or by continuous improvement.

4.
( initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to any of the Progressive parties in politics.

5.
going forward or onward; passing successively from one member of a series to the next; proceeding step by step.
http://dictionary.re...progressive?s=t


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#9    Corp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

Coming from a country where Obama would be a conservative I find any claims of him planning to turn into a communist state to frankly be lacking in reality. Seriously the rest of the Western world just shakes their heads when they hear this kind of talk. And liberalism is like a cult? Yeah, no. It's a political viewpoint that wouldn't seem so bad once you realist it's not communism.

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#10    Order66

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

View PostNeognosis, on 17 October 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

That's because you are trying as HARD as you can to demonize the things you think you disagree with.

I have nothing personal agaisnt either of them. I find Scientology interesting in the way that I find various topics on this forum interesting if you take my meaning. Really I want to understand Obama and the left, more than anything. When Obama asks hwo the deficit can be paid off without raising taxes for example, I find this to be amazingly disconnected from reality. He sees notrelationship between tax rates and a healthy economy. Whatever his notion is of how to grow the economy is probably stranger than anything Scientologists might believe.

View PostDarkwind, on 17 October 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

This could go on forever.  Got any links to support your views other than Fox news. Otherwise you got nothing.

Why do you keep arguing? I agreed with your definition. *snip*

View PostCorp, on 17 October 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

Coming from a country where Obama would be a conservative I find any claims of him planning to turn into a communist state to frankly be lacking in reality. Seriously the rest of the Western world just shakes their heads when they hear this kind of talk. And liberalism is like a cult? Yeah, no. It's a political viewpoint that wouldn't seem so bad once you realist it's not communism.

I'm sure the Obama phone lady wouldn't describe herself as a communist, even though her life is probably a textbook example of the Orwellian nanny state. What Obama sells and how he sells it are too different things.

Edited by Saru, 22 October 2012 - 06:56 PM.
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#11    Corp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

Phone lady?

Look the bottom line is that Obama is not a communist. Full stop. Heck it's debateable about how much of a socialist he is. This is just an old attack tactic of the GOP. I remember when Kerry was running it was claimed that he was the most radical left-winger in American politics. I think the same thing was said about Gore when he was running. And Orwellian nanny state? Really? Because what Obama is selling is less socialist than a lot of Western countries have and they're doing just fine. No Orwellian nanny state up here.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#12    Order66

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:31 PM

View PostCorp, on 17 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Phone lady?

Look the bottom line is that Obama is not a communist. Full stop. Heck it's debateable about how much of a socialist he is. This is just an old attack tactic of the GOP. I remember when Kerry was running it was claimed that he was the most radical left-winger in American politics. I think the same thing was said about Gore when he was running. And Orwellian nanny state? Really? Because what Obama is selling is less socialist than a lot of Western countries have and they're doing just fine. No Orwellian nanny state up here.

Oh I see, the problem is that we are not socialist enough :rolleyes: Europe is way ahead of us. Years ago that the UK lost global power and influence. Thanks to Obama the US is now catching up.

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#13    HerNibs

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

This doesn't seem to be much of a discussion about Scientology/Liberalism as much as it is a rehash of "Obama sucks" with a bunch of busted myths thrown in.

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#14    Order66

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

View PostHerNibs, on 17 October 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

This doesn't seem to be much of a discussion about Scientology/Liberalism as much as it is a rehash of "Obama sucks" with a bunch of busted myths thrown in.

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#15    Neognosis

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:09 PM

Quote

I have nothing personal agaisnt either of them. I find Scientology interesting in the way that I find various topics on this forum interesting if you take my meaning. Really I want to understand Obama and the left, more than anything.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm, or if you are just full of nonsense.

I think it's just a way for you to hurl insults and demonize liberals yet again.

I guess I could say that I'm really interested in learning more about how you think in the same way that I'm so curious about how people with Down's Syndrome learn how to do complex math.





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