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Red Indians


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#1    seeking8

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:38 PM

Hello

Just would like to explore the red Indians beliefs and if they still practice? also would love to learn something about their culture :)


#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

Do you mean the Native Americans here in the United States? Or do you mean the peoples who are native to India?

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#3    seeking8

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

View PostLady Kasey, on 25 October 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Do you mean the Native Americans here in the United States? Or do you mean the peoples who are native to India?

I meant Native Americans sorry I am still learning.


#4    Beany

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:56 PM

That's a huge topic! My favorite book about their spiritual traditions is Frank Fool's Crow: Wisdom and Power. His nephew, Ed McGaa, has also written some great books. And Frank Water's has written a series of books about the Hopi prophecies that are very readable.


#5    seeking8

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

View PostBeany, on 25 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

That's a huge topic! My favorite book about their spiritual traditions is Frank Fool's Crow: Wisdom and Power. His nephew, Ed McGaa, has also written some great books. And Frank Water's has written a series of books about the Hopi prophecies that are very readable.

Thank you so much I shall look these books up now! :)


#6    Jessica Christ

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

Don't forget about the Yaqui, Zuni, Apache.


#7    redhen

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

View Postseeking8, on 25 October 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Hello

Just would like to explore the red Indians beliefs and if they still practice? also would love to learn something about their culture :)

What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal).

Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners.

Is this the kind of info you wanted?


#8    monk 56

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:59 PM

Hi Redhen,

When two races want the same land, then there is always war, it wasn't only the American Tribes that scalped people!

http://xroads.virgin...n/oldfolks.html




#9    Imaginarynumber1

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:19 PM

View Postredhen, on 25 October 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal).

Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners.

Is this the kind of info you wanted?

To be fair, scalping was rarely practiced among Native Americans until the Europeans arrived. Even after their arrival, it was mainly the Europeans doing the scalping and encouraging it.

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#10    the eternal me

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:30 PM

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View Postredhen, on 25 October 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

What interests you specifically in Native spirituality? There are many aspects, some of which are no longer practiced (because they are illegal).

Native believed you could gain power by consuming pieces of human organs and flesh (the heart especially). You could also gain power just by obtaining a piece of your enemy (scalps). And of course it was customary to inflect cruel tortures on their helpless prisoners.

Is this the kind of info you wanted?

wow...... holy crap.... what to say to this....

being of native decent i see a lot of misinformation in this....

gaining power by consuming human organs?
where did you get this idea?

uh.... read your history.....

scalping was started by the Dutch....
the reason it was started was as a proof for a bounty when the US govt put a price on the heads of all natives....
a piece of the scalp was used as proof that the native was killed...... so the reward could be collected....

um... inflicting cruel tortures on the helpless prisoners was not a practice that was of any tribe....
that was something the settlers brought....

when the settlers arrived on the shores of north America... they found many peoples and cultures living in harmony...
there were feuds between some of the tribes.... but where in the world is there no conflict?

a lot of the beliefs of the common person holds today are the result of propaganda that still persists...
Hollywood movies and left over ways of thinking from the extermination of the native peoples runs amok still...
as in the harsh bias in your post....

as for the consuming of organs like the heart....
that was done while hunting..... and not done to humans...

if you look at the innuit....
very little plant matter in the environment...
yet they were healthy....
the raw meat and blubber is loaded with vitamins and nutrients....
calcium and all the necessities for a healthy body...
so the evolution of these peoples was in the environment...

on the hunt... when an animal was killed... the heart is full of nutrients...
thus the consumption of it was a matter of hunger...
the rest of the meat was taken back to feed the village...
and there is the fundamental difference in what most people have no understanding of....

the village and everyone in it, is family....

this is a concept that a lot of people have a really hard time grasping...

i don’t look at a stranger as a friend i haven’t met yet...
i see a stranger as a cousin that i haven’t got to know yet....

when i see a person of native decent...
it is very much an aspect of a huge percentage of the population of this demographic are my cousins...

the numbers of us before settlers showed up was in the millions....
enough so that a govt was in place....

do you think the differences in the US govt from the rest of the govt's in the world is because the settlers were so smart?

no....

it was modelled after the govt that was in place when they arrived....

the first settlers that came over were people that were given the option to either move to this new land and make a new start...
or rot in prison.....
so many many many of the first settlers that arrived were criminals...

before the relocation of these peoples to the "new land" ...
there were a lot of actions by the settler and the governing bodies (corporate interests) to try and screw the population out of what they had...
resources and lands.... by means of trickery and deception....
and there were many troubles they brought with them...

for one man to stand in the middle of a large field and say "this land is mine" .... for the most part is folly...
the land was here before you were... and will be here after you are gone....
how can you say "mine"?
unless you have the agreement of the people around you that it is yours....

the population didn’t understand this concept...
and the harsh retribution on a people that have always lived off the land in these parts was dealt with harshly...
hunting....
gathering in areas they had always done these in were made "illegal" ...
so escalating conflicts started to arise....

when the population of the natives were saying...
cousin... friend.... why do you have a problem with how we have lived...
the land and what is on it is for all to share.....

the settlers were saying "you must be punished for this crime" ....

the legal system that was brought over was already heavily influenced by the church...
and torture and punishment of death was common practice...
another concept that was unknown to the indigenous peoples....

so there was a rise in the people to deal with the problem of how these people thought....
try and educate them to understand....
but .... a war was declared in the budding united states...

and then there is the problem of the differences in the way they thought....

for the settlers that came over... the concept of war went like this....

someone is coming after you to shoot you.....
you shoot them....
they fall down and run away.... or get carried away...
they are out of the fight...
easy....

the problem with the native warriors....
they had no fear of death....
so ... one is coming at you with a weapon....
you shoot them.....
they are still coming....
you shoot them again....
they are still coming...
unless you get a fatal hit....
this warrior is not going to stop....
he will keep going until he cant fight....

major problem for the budding army... and the reason the army was formed in the first place...
a police force to uphold foreign laws on a people that have never had anything of the sort...

not to say it was lawless....
far from it.....

there were many missionaries that wrote in their logs about how "Christian" the native population was....
a population governed by a concept of right and wrong....
and having a higher goal of peace amongst all peoples....

everybody had the responsibility of keeping the peace...
there was no police needed...

anyhow.....

so these settlers that were charged with fighting these warriors were deathly afraid of them....
big problem..... what to do.....
the Spanish had tried to settle...
and because of the same problems got their asses handed to them...
and got evicted.....

so in comes the concept of handing out blankets with a disease that the native population had no immunity to....
small pox.....

small pox wiped out a population millions ... and brought the numbers down to thousands....

so many families and entire tribes....
communities and even cities (in another concept of cities) were gone.....
once the numbers were down to manageable levels.....
then the process of exterminating the remainder of them began....

war.....
torture....
bounties....

all things brought upon a peoples that had lost their families and ways of life....

how far did these people have to be beat down?

well the concept was to make them extinct.....

and even after all of this......

the native population still says....
we should live in peace.....

that way of thinking.... that mentality is what has not died....

you are not a friend i haven’t met yet....
your my cousin i haven’t had the time with to get to know....

why is the mentality of the native peoples being barbaric still around?

when the barbarians were the ones who came on boats? .....

every concept of what a barbarian is....
is what was imported to this land.....


#11    the eternal me

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

to clarify on a point.....

history is written by the victors....

the history of the native population is handed down to the next generation...
passed from mother to daughter...
father to son....

i know much from my background (as with any native) that you wont find in any history books...


#12    seeking8

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

I like to learn new things thats why I am looking for information. I am drawn to this subject of native Americans because I have had dreams about them. I would like to learn about their beliefs :-)


#13    Setton

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:13 AM

There's a book called Native American Myths and Legends. It's a decent, accessible introduction to many beliefs and a very good read. I'll look the author's name up while I'm home this weekend.

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#14    LEGIONS

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:25 AM

a six gun in one hand and a bible in the other justifying rape, murder and mayhem was kinda sorta maybe confusing to the kin folk

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#15    monk 56

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:09 AM

Hi seeking8,

I see you come from London, which is where i live as well, welcome to the forum.

As far as Cherokee beliefs i would contact the Cherokee Phoenix newspaper first established in 1828, links below:-

http://www.cherokeephoenix.org/

History of paper below:-

http://en.wikipedia....herokee_Phoenix





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