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Becoming A Domestic Animal

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#16    ouija ouija

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:35 PM

View PostBeany, on 29 October 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

My common sense tells me this claim has no basis in fact. It's an opinon, nothing more. "All adults are aware they are repugnant to others, and therefore pretend to be something more appealing. (Even a psycho pretends to be merely scary, to hide that he's a monster.)" And my common sense tell me this is a warped point of view. Our society is not insane. Some individuals are, but not all, by any means. And my common sense has me asking, in regard to mothers, whether the father has any influence, through both a presence or an absence. Some of these are sociological issues that can't be seriously discussed without education & research, and others are opinons. Because my opinion differs doesn't mean I'm not using common sense. As for insanity, would you call the people who volunteers or work for Doctors Without Borders insane, of the American Cancer Society, or CDC staff, .... The list of people doing good work is endless, and that is not insanity. As for sheep, would this be the people who gave us our childhood immunizations, or educated us, or gave us technology, or MRIs, or long-distance surgery, of Lasik surgery, or who maintain our power grid & see that we get clean water, or installed the tsunami warning system? If you're going to maintain the insanity thing, cough up something better than skewed opinions. Baah, humbug!

I think it's possible that both you and behavioralist are to some degree right: I could argue that it is insanity that has got us to a position where we need to clean water before we can use it;  or that civilisation as we know it would totally collapse if the power grid failed for any length of time because we are so dependant on it; "All adults are aware ...... etc etc": perhaps 'repugnant' is too strong a word and yet........... don't the majority of us think about how we look and take care to dress in a 'generally acceptable' manner? Don't we take care not to smell of 'ourselves'? who would dare go out in clothes that had been mended these days? How many people feel bad when grey hairs appear, or 'age spots' on the skin? Surely this is low-level 'insanity'?

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#17    Hippycrite

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

So, when we find someone who doesn't make us vomit at first sight, and mate with them, the resulting infant should be left alone to determine for itself how it wants to exist. I guess it works out in the insect world, so why not humans?


#18    ouija ouija

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:13 PM

View PostHippycrite, on 29 October 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

So, when we find someone who doesn't make us vomit at first sight, and mate with them, the resulting infant should be left alone to determine for itself how it wants to exist. I guess it works out in the insect world, so why not humans?

In theory, yes. Trouble is, real life isn't like that, is it? The infant(assuming it survived for a year or more), would very quickly come across others who also wanted to determine for themselves how they would live their lives ....... terrible clashes of interests would ensue!! The fact is, to survive, we all have to compromise to a greater or lesser degree.

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#19    Beany

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:05 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 29 October 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I think it's possible that both you and behavioralist are to some degree right: I could argue that it is insanity that has got us to a position where we need to clean water before we can use it;  or that civilisation as we know it would totally collapse if the power grid failed for any length of time because we are so dependant on it; "All adults are aware ...... etc etc": perhaps 'repugnant' is too strong a word and yet........... don't the majority of us think about how we look and take care to dress in a 'generally acceptable' manner? Don't we take care not to smell of 'ourselves'? who would dare go out in clothes that had been mended these days? How many people feel bad when grey hairs appear, or 'age spots' on the skin? Surely this is low-level 'insanity'?

Oh, blah. Still all opinions with no basis in fact. I see the world differently, that's all. I don't think I'd get much joy out of life if all I saw was "insanity", "repugnance", and "sheep." I see beauty, compassion, creativity, joy, love, kindness, generosity, and when I see problems I do what I can to help find solutions. That's all.


#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:38 PM

View PostBeany, on 30 October 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Oh, blah. Still all opinions with no basis in fact. I see the world differently, that's all. I don't think I'd get much joy out of life if all I saw was "insanity", "repugnance", and "sheep." I see beauty, compassion, creativity, joy, love, kindness, generosity, and when I see problems I do what I can to help find solutions. That's all.

What did I say that has 'no basis in fact'?

Don't get me wrong, I also see a lot of 'beauty, compassion, creativity, joy, love, kindness and generosity'.

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#21    Beany

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:23 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 30 October 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

What did I say that has 'no basis in fact'?

Don't get me wrong, I also see a lot of 'beauty, compassion, creativity, joy, love, kindness and generosity'.

The first 4 paragraphs of your original post. There's a lot of supposition there, and maybe some amateur psychology & sociology. Maybe I was getting you wrong, because I felt what I was reading was a pretty narrow point of view. Glad to know you're more multifaceted.

Here's my thing about the human race. To call people sheep is degrading not only them but yourself, unless you exclude yourself from sheepdom. The older I get the more I realize how many people have not only lived through some pretty horrifying things or circumstances, but have actually triumphed, sometimes against huge odds. People generally don't talk about that kind of intimate stuff, but when I am privileged to hear one of those stories, I am usually awed by the courage and wisdom it takes to get through some of life's hard times.

Edited by Beany, 01 November 2012 - 01:27 AM.


#22    ouija ouija

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostBeany, on 01 November 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Here's my thing about the human race. To call people sheep is degrading not only them but yourself, unless you exclude yourself from sheepdom. The older I get the more I realize how many people have not only lived through some pretty horrifying things or circumstances, but have actually triumphed, sometimes against huge odds. People generally don't talk about that kind of intimate stuff, but when I am privileged to hear one of those stories, I am usually awed by the courage and wisdom it takes to get through some of life's hard times.

Totally with you there!

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#23    behavioralist

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:07 PM

I guess beany wants to say that his thinking, and the motivations that define what he's really after (while he's affecting to be quite incapable of cupidity), are private for a very altruistic reason (like mouthwash over a vile embalming-fluid breath caused by alcoholism);

or at least that he only plots misdemeanors; so that the reality of him would not at all strike revulsion in the heart of the one with the behavioral science sufficient to unveil it.

Everyone talks about how well they understand reality, and yet not one of these people is talking about the reality all adults dissemble (conceal from each other by various deflective devices) in order to surreptitiously perpetrate wrongs against each other, children and other species, and then cover their tracks.

---so they can sit on the jury condemning idiots who have done less or perhaps even nothing wrong.

Yes, human cultures are all very nice if you overlook wrongdoing that isn't in the papers!

---and that does what for planet Earth that I'm thankful for?

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Credulousness is when the process of being made more useful to duplicitous exploiters leaves us presuming to have become superior. Something is growing that is killing the mind; thereby orphaning the children in one's very care.
Learning, if not credulous, is always growing. Teaching is always degenerating. Glibness is a vice in either case, the former because one will wish one had said more, and the latter because one will admire one's rubbish unto death.





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