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Sumerian astronomical knowledge


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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:26 PM

Did Sumerians knew that earth is round? Did they consider it to be another planet? Did they knew about Saturn?

20 Squares game or Royal Game of Ur is one of the oldest board games ever and games in general.
As it names said its foun in Sumerian city of Ur circa 2700 BC.

For more info you can look here:
http://www.britishmu...game_of_ur.aspx


Anyway look at board. It looks like stars and could possbly represent nigh sky.

Posted Image

Game was played with 3 dices and each players would have 7 circles/spheres which could demonstrate planets. It might be representation of plantes traveling trouhg the night sky.So what number 7 represent?

Sun,Moon,Earth,Mercury,Venus,Mars,Jupiter?

Or maybe without Sun-Mercury,Venus,Earth,Moon,Mars,Jupiter,Saturn?

Or without Earth and Moon we can add Uranus and Neptune.

Its hard to think that board stars represent something other because what was most important to people who invented Zodiac and Calendar.
Stars and Plantes. Night sky. They first tried to made moon calendar. But they were not satisfied. They coudnt control Sun because flat area didnt allow them and they didnt built Stonehenge for that so they turned for Stars.

And if those are stars what 7 circles represents? Planets? What planets?

Edited by the L, 28 October 2012 - 11:35 PM.

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#2    Ashotep

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:02 AM

Interesting game, the one that looks like a flower could represent the sun.

Thanks for posting.


#3    kmt_sesh

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:46 AM

Those are not stars but rosettes. Rosettes were a common artistic motif in numerous Near Eastern cultures, including Egypt. The Egyptians had a very similar game. The other motifs appear to be random geometric patterns of the sort used in architectural decoration.

There does not appear to be any writing on the board, so I don't see how it would work for astrological purposes. I'm not dismissing the possibility that some ritual aspect was involved when playing the game—just as senet in Egypt eventually developed into a sort of ritually significant game—but there doesn't appear to be anything astrological about it.

The PDF on this web page might be helpful to peruse. It doesn't have anything to do with the game board, but as I recall Heiser summarizes how the Sumerians actually depicted stars and perhaps other heavenly bodies.

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#4    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 06:50 AM

I agree with sesh here the board game is not very indicative of the heavens in my opinion.Seems like an ancient version of Ludo.


#5    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:50 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 29 October 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Those are not stars but rosettes. Rosettes were a common artistic motif in numerous Near Eastern cultures, including Egypt. The Egyptians had a very similar game. The other motifs appear to be random geometric patterns of the sort used in architectural decoration.

How do you know they are not Stars. You can called it rosettes but that doesnt mean that isnt artistic way of seeing stars. Egyptians were numerous time influenced by Mesopotamia so it doesnt surprise similar motives.

Quote

There does not appear to be any writing on the board, so I don't see how it would work for astrological purposes. I'm not dismissing the possibility that some ritual aspect was involved when playing the game—just as senet in Egypt eventually developed into a sort of ritually significant game—but there doesn't appear to be anything astrological about it.

There isnt writting "This is rossete" on board either.

Quote

The PDF on this web page might be helpful to peruse. It doesn't have anything to do with the game board, but as I recall Heiser summarizes how the Sumerians actually depicted stars and perhaps other heavenly bodies.

Its site sitchiniswrong.com so I dont know where you going with it. You could link me Cremo is wrong too. This isnt Sitchin idea.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
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#6    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

View Postthe L, on 29 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

How do you know they are not Stars. You can called it rosettes but that doesnt mean that isnt artistic way of seeing stars. Egyptians were numerous time influenced by Mesopotamia so it doesnt surprise similar motives.



There isnt writting "This is rossete" on board either.



Its site sitchiniswrong.com so I dont know where you going with it. You could link me Cremo is wrong too. This isnt Sitchin idea.
Ya but we all know that any idea that Sitchin would indorse would be wrong since Sitchin is wrong.So if you wan't to falsify a reasonable theory you have to just say that Sitchin indorsed it. :yes: .


#7    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 29 October 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Ya but we all know that any idea that Sitchin would indorse would be wrong since Sitchin is wrong.So if you wan't to falsify a reasonable theory you have to just say that Sitchin indorsed it. :yes: .

That isnt logic. Because one could bring new element in game and claim same as Sitchin. That new element isnt debunked. Only previous idea on previous "evidence."

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#8    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:07 AM

View Postthe L, on 29 October 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

That isnt logic. Because one could bring new element in game and claim same as Sitchin. That new element isnt debunked. Only previous idea on previous "evidence."
I agree with you.Many ideas/theories suggested by Sitchin are also very interesting and credible but his skeptic blanket all of it to be false or wrong.I appreciate the man's work,i was just being sarcastic.


#9    Abramelin

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:06 PM

The board has 20 squares in total.

Now, if it had 12 squares (or 13 in case of a Moon calendar) or 365 squares (days of the year) then there might be an astronomical or even an astrological connection.

So, -L-, can you explain the number 20?


#10    Harte

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

View Postthe L, on 29 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

How do you know they are not Stars. You can called it rosettes but that doesnt mean that isnt artistic way of seeing stars.
It's called "knowledge."

Have some:

Posted Image

On left - typical Sumerian depiction of a star, center - of the moon, right - the Sun.

Harte

Posted Image
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#11    kmt_sesh

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:23 AM

View Postthe L, on 29 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

How do you know they are not Stars. You can called it rosettes but that doesnt mean that isnt artistic way of seeing stars. Egyptians were numerous time influenced by Mesopotamia so it doesnt surprise similar motives.



There isnt writting "This is rossete" on board either.



Its site sitchiniswrong.com so I dont know where you going with it. You could link me Cremo is wrong too. This isnt Sitchin idea.

As I explained in my post, the PDF to which I linked was meant to emphasize Michael Heiser's summary of how Sumerians depicted stars. My suggesting the PDF has nothing to do with Sitchin but with the proper interpretation of artistic motifs by a person professionally trained to conduct such interpretations.

See Harte's preceding post on some examples of Sumerian depictions of heavenly objects. In many more contexts, the Sumerians depicted stars as simple circles.

I identified the objects as rosettes because they're immediately identifiable as such. It was an extremely common artistic motif and generally represented a regal, authoritative, or divine status when used in conjunction with architecture or figurative artwork.

This page provides some more information as to how the rosette was used in both Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Although Sumerian knowledge of the heavens was understandably limited, they did conduct astronomical and astrological observation. This object is a resin cast of an actual Sumerian star chart.

Posted Image
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#12    Abramelin

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:55 AM

You obviously never read Sitchin's books, or you would not have posted a link to that resin cast, LOL.


#13    monk 56

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

An ancient civilization needed to be good at geometry to find out if the Earth was round, so we have to note the ancient Greek masters, and one that i love the best being Eratosthenes, who conducted experiments to see if the Earth was round, what is strange is nearly 1800 years after his death many still thought the Earth was flat!

http://www.eranet.gr...s/html/eoc.html


#14    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:42 AM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 30 October 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

As I explained in my post, the PDF to which I linked was meant to emphasize Michael Heiser's summary of how Sumerians depicted stars. My suggesting the PDF has nothing to do with Sitchin but with the proper interpretation of artistic motifs by a person professionally trained to conduct such interpretations.

See Harte's preceding post on some examples of Sumerian depictions of heavenly objects. In many more contexts, the Sumerians depicted stars as simple circles.

I identified the objects as rosettes because they're immediately identifiable as such. It was an extremely common artistic motif and generally represented a regal, authoritative, or divine status when used in conjunction with architecture or figurative artwork.

This page provides some more information as to how the rosette was used in both Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Although Sumerian knowledge of the heavens was understandably limited, they did conduct astronomical and astrological observation. This object is a resin cast of an actual Sumerian star chart.
Though it is not necessarily a rossete,it is a stylised Lotus (a aerial view of a lotus) since it explains the distinctly seperated petals.
Posted Image



Cealing Motif of 'Ashtdal-kamal' (Full bloomed Eight petel lotus) in "Dhai Din Ka Jhonpada", Ajmer, Rajasthan, India


Posted Image

If you check the motif the Lotus has eight petals on the Summerian board game and since the petals are distinctly seperate and pointed and tapering it is highly unlikely that it is a Rossete.

Edited by Harsh86_Patel, 30 October 2012 - 05:47 AM.


#15    Rlyeh

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

View Postthe L, on 28 October 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

Did Sumerians knew that earth is round? Did they consider it to be another planet? Did they knew about Saturn?
According to what evidence?

Quote

Anyway look at board. It looks like stars and could possbly represent nigh sky.
And the pieces look like flying saucers.

Quote

And if those are stars what 7 circles represents? Planets? What planets?
Why don't you just make it up like you've done so far?





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