18 replies to this topic

[questionmark]

Washington Post said:

President Obama may be in be final months of his presidency or just nearing the end of his first term. If you asked conservatives to name the worst thing Obama has done in his presidency, many would say Obamacare or the debt. Some might say the deterioration in the U.S.-Israel relationship or the Libya debacle. But these things can be ameliorated by future presidents and lawmakers. There are some things however that are not so easily erased, and in the long term may be far more detrimental to the United States and the West.

On the negative side of the ledger, any accounting of Obama’s presidency must start with Iran. Short of military action or regime collapse, Iran is likely soon to have nuclear weapons capability. Obama wasted 18 months at the onset of his presidency on “engagement,” snubbed the Green Movement, dragged his feet on sanctions, talked down the military option and failed to isolate Iran diplomatically (it recently held a multi-national United Nations conference). Either Obama or the next president will be handed a predicament, accept a nuclear-armed Iran or engage or support military action that will have serious consequences for the region and the West. Jimmy Carter’s ineptitude and projection of weakness (because he lost the presidency) was promptly counterbalanced by Ronald Reagan’s assertion of American power. But a nuclear bomb and the closing of the window on the best chance in decades for Iranian regime change are, if not forever, the long-term legacy of Obama’s misguided foreign policy.

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[DieChecker]

I think any President is going to have negative things he is remembered for. Personnally, I think the Debt that was run up is horrendous, and basically unforgivable. You don't live a 100,000 dollar lifestyle if you only are making 40,000 dollars a year. How is it that our Congress allows a budget that is 150% of what is brought in?

I know Keynesian economics calls for more Government spending in times of Recession, but it also calls for cutting back and saving in times of Plenty. So, when will all these Keynesians are in power in any upcoming time of Plenty, I hope they follow their economic belief and don't turn back into Mega-Spenders. Because it is easy for a Tax and Spender to look just like a Keynesian in a Recession and then simply keep spending when the recession is over. And THAT would be a FAILING economic theory... unbalanced as it were. Honest Keynesians at least are balanced in spending and taxation over the long term. Where a Tax-and-Spender is only going to keep making things worse.

[Merc14]

edit

Edited by Merc14, 30 October 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[Dredimus]

questionmark, on 29 October 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

WASHINGTON POST:
President Obama may be in be final months of his presidency or just nearing the end of his first term. If you asked conservatives to name the worst thing Obama has done in his presidency, many would say Obamacare or the debt. Some might say the deterioration in the U.S.-Israel relationship or the Libya debacle. But these things can be ameliorated by future presidents and lawmakers. There are some things however that are not so easily erased, and in the long term may be far more detrimental to the United States and the West.

On the negative side of the ledger, any accounting of Obama’s presidency must start with Iran. Short of military action or regime collapse, Iran is likely soon to have nuclear weapons capability. Obama wasted 18 months at the onset of his presidency on “engagement,” snubbed the Green Movement, dragged his feet on sanctions, talked down the military option and failed to isolate Iran diplomatically (it recently held a multi-national United Nations conference). Either Obama or the next president will be handed a predicament, accept a nuclear-armed Iran or engage or support military action that will have serious consequences for the region and the West. Jimmy Carter’s ineptitude and projection of weakness (because he lost the presidency) was promptly counterbalanced by Ronald Reagan’s assertion of American power. But a nuclear bomb and the closing of the window on the best chance in decades for Iranian regime change are, if not forever, the long-term legacy of Obama’s misguided foreign policy.

There is nothing about the incident in Libya that can be fixed or "made better" by future presidents or lawmakers... you cant replace the lives that were lost.

[questionmark]

Dredimus, on 30 October 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

There is nothing about the incident in Libya that can be fixed or "made better" by future presidents or lawmakers... you cant replace the lives that were lost.

There is something that can be done better: don't open any embassies if Congress does not approve the means to fortify them. It is laughable that embassies in Frankfurt/Germany or London, that are on safe territory, are better fortified than the one in Libya.

[Merc14]

questionmark, on 30 October 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

There is something that can be done better: don't open any embassies if Congress does not approve the means to fortify them. It is laughable that embassies in Frankfurt/Germany or London, that are on safe territory, are better fortified than the one in Libya.

Why did we have people there when others like Red Cross and Brits  pulled out based on intelligence an attack was imminent on any part stlil in-country?  Why didn't we protect hem when they were there?

Edited by Merc14, 31 October 2012 - 01:43 AM.

[Gummug]

I think this is one of his biggest failures, imo:
http://dailycaller.c...ntry-needs-now/

[questionmark]

Merc14, on 31 October 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

Why did we have people there when others like Red Cross and Brits  pulled out based on intelligence an attack was imminent on any part stlil in-country?  Why didn't we protect hem when they were there?

Ask that those who had to make the decision whether to pull out, like the ambassador, his consuls and their aides.

[ninjadude]

Gummug, on 02 November 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I think this is one of his biggest failures, imo:

why? millions of people have already been helped. Millions more will follow.

[Dredimus]

ninjadude, on 02 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

why? millions of people have already been helped. Millions more will follow.

Some 68 percent of Americans hope the Supreme Court will strike down all or part of President Barack Obama’s health care law, while just 24 percent hope the high court will uphold Obamacare, according to aNew York Times/CBS Newspoll.

That is just one such article/poll on the topic and they all say the same thing... The vast majority of the US population DOES NOT want obamacare.... we dont want yet ANOTHER government program that is destined to fails as the rest have/are. There are 27 states in an active battle against obamacare... and only 15 states are actively following the obamacare guidlines to impliment the exchange market. Most states refuse to do this as well as expanding their medicare. You have to remember, its supposed to be FOR THE PEOPLE. Not for what the ruling parties agenda is.

[DieChecker]

Dredimus, on 04 November 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Some 68 percent of Americans hope the Supreme Court will strike down all or part of President Barack Obama’s health care law, while just 24 percent hope the high court will uphold Obamacare, according to aNew York Times/CBS Newspoll.

That is just one such article/poll on the topic and they all say the same thing... The vast majority of the US population DOES NOT want obamacare.... we dont want yet ANOTHER government program that is destined to fails as the rest have/are. There are 27 states in an active battle against obamacare... and only 15 states are actively following the obamacare guidlines to impliment the exchange market. Most states refuse to do this as well as expanding their medicare. You have to remember, its supposed to be FOR THE PEOPLE. Not for what the ruling parties agenda is.

I think Obamacare is going to be remembered as a monumental Flop. It will end up like Prohibition, as something that was enacted to try to force people to act in what those in power perceive as the people's own best interests. Yet turns out to be infinately harder to enact and enforce and PAY FOR then anyone could have every imagined when it was proposed and signed into law.

Quote

David Walker, former U.S. Comptroller General now working for The Peter G. Peterson Foundation, has stated that the CBO estimates are not likely to be accurate, because it is based on the assumption that Congress is going to do everything they say they're going to do.

Quote

The United States Department of Health and Human Services reported that the bill would increase "total national health expenditures" by more than $200 billion from 2010 to 2019. The report also cautioned that the increases could be larger, because the Medicare cuts in the law may be unrealistic and unsustainable, forcing lawmakers to roll them back.

http://en.wikipedia....rdable_Care_Act

Obamacare is basically counting on those who will be paying fines and on Medicare cuts, and on a half a hundred things... all to go Right, and nothing to go wrong, or it will Cost money rather then save.

I'm not against healthcare reform, I just did not personally like this piece of legislation.

[Babe Ruth]

Obama governs just like Bush did, which is to say he violates the US Constitution and his Oath of Office as he pleases.  He usurps power MORE than Bush did.

Only difference I  can see is that one was dyslexic, while the other is not.

[F3SS]

ninjadude, on 02 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

why? millions of people have already been helped. Millions more will follow.

Just wait until the mandate penalties become a factor. I'm not talking about the first year little penalty. I'm talking about the couple thousand dollar penalties that follow thereafter. Americans will roar when their tax return checks get scooped and are told they owe more money. Then they can't afford the mandatory insurance. Then next year they get hit with another penalty and so on. Eventually they'll be forced onto a crappy government insurance program. Hello endgame. Complete government takeover.
The precedent for this kind of thing wasn't fully enacted with the SCOTUS ruling in favor of obamacare. The real precedent will be set n 2014 after the first round of penalties have been doled out. Then obamacare returns to the SCOTUS and they will be able to hold a case to review the effects and legality of the mandate. That's when the future of this country will really be foretold.

[DieChecker]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

The precedent for this kind of thing wasn't fully enacted with the SCOTUS ruling in favor of obamacare. The real precedent will be set n 2014 after the first round of penalties have been doled out. Then obamacare returns to the SCOTUS and they will be able to hold a case to review the effects and legality of the mandate. That's when the future of this country will really be foretold.

Those penalties are Critical to the legislation. After 2014, they make up somewhere between 25 to 50% of the money to pay for all this. The penalty is what will pay for the expanded Medicare groups and all the other entitlements that will begin to be enacted. The poor paying for the poor. Not exactly Robin Hood.

Edited by DieChecker, 04 November 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[Startraveler]

-Mr_Fess-, on 04 November 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Just wait until the mandate penalties become a factor. I'm not talking about the first year little penalty. I'm talking about the couple thousand dollar penalties that follow thereafter. Americans will roar when their tax return checks get scooped and are told they owe more money.

DieChecker, on 04 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Those penalties are Critical to the legislation. After 2014, they make up somewhere between 25 to 50% of the money to pay for all this. The penalty is what will pay for the expanded Medicare groups and all the other entitlements that will begin to be enacted. The poor paying for the poor. Not exactly Robin Hood.

You both seem to be vastly overestimated both the number of people who will be paying mandate penalties and the amount of revenue they will bring in.

Estimates from September of this year:

Quote

After accounting for those who will not be subject to the penalty tax, CBO and JCT now estimate that about 6 million people will pay a penalty because they are uninsured in 2016 (a figure that includes uninsured dependents who have the penalty paid on their behalf) and that total collections will be about $7 billion in 2016 and average about $8 billion per year over the 2017–2022 period.

That's less than 2 percent of the population.