Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:52 AM
Chasingtherabbit, on 17 November 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:
Hyperreality on the other hand is both the inability to distinguish between virtual reality and reality but also augmenting normal reality or suspending it to bring a desired product that is not real at all. Thus because it is related to the topic of virtual reality did I even bring up hyperreality but hyperreality extends beyond the domain of virtual reality.
Also initially you were insinuating my understanding of the article was incorrect and when that failed you are now finding fault with the whole article itself. I believe the fault is with your original disputation.
Actually my problem was your refusal to use the definition of "reality". Which you still continue to ignore.
How cute, the dictionary defintion of reality. I think we all can agree on what reality is according to that.
The issue seems to be that some do not understand that when coupled with the notion of hyperreality that reality itself is no longer clearly demarcated. What reality is and isn't begins to breakdown once and only once hyperreality is introduced as a concept. The definition for reality then begins to get fuzzy.
Before that everything seems real!!! But the lines are actually blurry. Even your hamburger and hamburger bun from the local fast food place seem real until you realize much of it is not beef (patty) or flour (bun) at all but highfrutcose corn syrup. So it is a very "real" product. You can hold the hamburger in your hand. But you seem to get lost when understanding that it then becomes "hyperreal" when we consider is is mostly HFC and not authentic beef or flour so in this context the hamburger is no longer "real" as you would claim.
So I agree that a lawn is "real" according to your definition but you seem unable to understand how it no longer becomes real and becomes hyperreal instead once we add in a garden, hedgerows, plant a few trees to replace the ones we torn down before, and once a few birds return and insects we claim is is part of nature but nevermind that we destroyed the original habitat of the original birds and insects that belonged when we tore down all those trees and destroyed actual nature to make our existence.
Here is another simple example to illustrate because you seem to be having heaps of trouble:
You theoretically buy a copy of the video game Second Life. They send you the CD installer. It is real, the CD is real, the computer in front of you that will run the program is real, but the game itself is virtural reality. Now let us take it just one step further. Making a business and turning a profit, converting simoleans to real world dollar bills, becomes hyperreality when you are then spending time in the game world and fielding questions or complaints from your clients.
And an even more complex definition if you are up to it:
reality, hyperreality (1)
The Oxford English Dictionary defines reality foremost as "the quality of being real or having an actual existence" and supplements this with a definition of real as "having objective existence," and finally to exist as having "place in the domain of reality." These conventional definitions of reality represent a larger problem in the attempt to locate the real on the most basic level, for they are wholly circular, a set of signifiers reflecting back at each other lacking the grounding necessary to render meaning. This problem is not unique to the word ‘reality,’ indeed almost all words and signs are only able to refer back towards the internal exchange of other signs in order to produce a theoretical anchor. The slippage of reality, its elusiveness encountered even in a basic search for a definition, is an element of the hyperreal – a condition in which the distinction between the ‘real’ and the imaginary implodes. There is no static definition of hyperreality, and the interpretations employed by theorists vary on some of the most essential terms.
It seems so important now but you will get over.
Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:41 AM
Rlyeh, on 17 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:
Sure I can. Just as you can claim it isn't real or it is a simulation.
But your claim would not be based on the ambiguous nature of hyperreality but your own grasping at what hyperreality is.
I should have clarified sooner but hyperreality can be ambiguous in nature but it is not dependent on perception as you have claimed. It exists whether you perceive it or not. The fast food burger is no longer real whether or not the person eating it understands what hyperreality is or not.
I also never claimed a lawn is a simulation. It is taking what was originally there and making something new with no actual comparison in nature even if the end product is referred to as nature.
Now take the project occuring by our riverside, they are adding in walking paths but also replanting "native trees" and reintroducing "native fauna". The end product will be a simulation of what was there, that would be a simulation, a lawn is not a simulation, but the end product by the riverside will be another example of hyperreality because it won't be exactly what was there before two hundred years ago before we altered the landscape, the riverside, the riverflow and almost every other facet of the area.
It is all tame and under control not wild and chaotic.
Everyone will claim nature has returned to a small piece of our city but I can see the actual situation for what it is. Trust me I will also appreciate the new area and take full advantage. We already do of the sections open down creekside.
Edited by Chasingtherabbit, 17 November 2012 - 09:53 AM.
It seems so important now but you will get over.
Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:54 AM
Rlyeh, on 17 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:
And yours would be the misunderstanding of a simulation.
Have you redefined conscious perception too?
I doubt we can further offer each other anything we would consider value but let others read and see who they learned more from. Have a good morning. The new Twilight movie begins in 5 hours and 6 minutes for me!!!
Edited by Chasingtherabbit, 17 November 2012 - 09:55 AM.
Pfff the above lil convo here is a nice example of why Virtual Reality would ge great, i could just preventively delete these events from occuring.
Chasingtherabbit, i hate to break it to you, since you are so overly motivated to try and impress strangers with your "knowledge". You don't fully understand hyperreality yourself. I didn't magically start with agriculture. It started from the moment humans existed and were able to perceive things in their own way, creating their own hyperreality. Or actually, you could say it began from the moment the first living organism came to existence and had to deal with a limited model of reality.
Just like with Google, ppl are more inclined to search for things they are interested in, creating their own world of understanding a limited amount of subjects .. and searching for information that confirms their own bias. This is hyperreality. And this is also not what this thread is about.
You feeling the need to divert this thread to a topic you think you know everything about is a perfect example of creating your own hyperreality.