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USA Presidential election -- November 6


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#31    Merc14

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:03 AM

View Postninjadude, on 01 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Only in the conservabubble. The rest of us know that his presidency has been a success.

We'll see how big "the rest of us" is here in less than a week.

You asked for Obamamerica, now you are going to get it.  Stand by for suck or as Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#32    joc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:17 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 31 October 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I think he understands that perfectly, but when Congress does not do what the president wants, STOP BLAMING THE PRESIDENT.
Really? If the President is a Leader, then he should be able to Lead Congress, bring them together to actually make some real progress for the country.  You are admitting that Obama doesn't have the leadership skills necessary to do that.  Let me remind you of something...Ronald Reagan did have those leadership skills.  He didn't allow Congress to dictate what HE was going to do or not do.  And he didn't try to go around Congress either with Executive Orders.   So...if the President is unable to affectively lead a congress when he doesn't own both houses...why the hell shouldn't we BLAME THE PRESIDENT?

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#33    Merc14

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:28 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Really? If the President is a Leader, then he should be able to Lead Congress, bring them together to actually make some real progress for the country.  You are admitting that Obama doesn't have the leadership skills necessary to do that.  Let me remind you of something...Ronald Reagan did have those leadership skills.  He didn't allow Congress to dictate what HE was going to do or not do.  And he didn't try to go around Congress either with Executive Orders.   So...if the President is unable to affectively lead a congress when he doesn't own both houses...why the hell shouldn't we BLAME THE PRESIDENT?

The left here on UM are acting like Obama is the first president to face a hostile congress.  It is a patently absurd argument, especially when he had an advantage that few presidents have of owning both houses for two years and passing ALL of his agenda in that time.  I could not have said it better than you sir.  Well done!  Obam has zero leadership skill, even within his own party. Reid threw him out of the room when the heavy negotiations began with the last go-round.

You asked for Obamamerica, now you are going to get it.  Stand by for suck or as Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#34    joc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:36 AM

Posted Imageninjadude, on 01 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Quote

Only in the conservabubble. The rest of us know that his presidency has been a success.

So I will now tell a joke:  (insert any Religion here, I'm not picking on anyone here)

A Baptist died and went to Heaven.  He was just having a grand ole time until he noticed one group of people all huddled together.  They never looked at anyone else or smiled or waved or anything...they just all stayed huddled together.  The Baptist was a little confused and asked Joshua (who was standing close by), 'Why are those people all huddled together like that?'.   Joshua replied, 'Oh, that's the Church of Christ crowd, they think they are the only one's up here.

Relevancy of the joke:  You talk about the Conservabubble...but in reality the 'bubble' is the Democrat Party.  Just go back a few months to the summer of 2012.  the Convervabubble as you call it...circled every Chic Filet Restaurant in America for days on end.  The restaurants had to close early because they RAN OUT OF FOOD....then as I recall, the wide spread and main stream Lesbian Community attempted a Kiss In in Chic Filets across the fruited plane...I think maybe two actually participated.  So, who lives in a bubble my friend?
I cordially invite you Ninjadude...step away from the dark side and embrace the Light...let it guide your path and then you will see.

I am editing this post to say that I am not against Lesbians or Gays...I have many gay and lesbian friends...the point was toward the bubble of the Democrat Ideology of which many gays and lesbians are part of.

Edited by joc, 01 November 2012 - 02:38 AM.

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#35    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:53 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Really? If the President is a Leader, then he should be able to Lead Congress, bring them together to actually make some real progress for the country.  You are admitting that Obama doesn't have the leadership skills necessary to do that.  Let me remind you of something...Ronald Reagan did have those leadership skills.  He didn't allow Congress to dictate what HE was going to do or not do.  And he didn't try to go around Congress either with Executive Orders.   So...if the President is unable to affectively lead a congress when he doesn't own both houses...why the hell shouldn't we BLAME THE PRESIDENT?

Um you really need to read an intro to American Goverment book or take a class...
The president is the leader of the executive branch. The president does not control Congress. In fact, Congress was put in place to counter act the executive branch. This is called checks and balances. We implimented this type of system to stop the president from being a dictator (like you seem to think he is.) And if you look at how the system works, Congress has the final say, not the president...

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#36    Merc14

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:05 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 01 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

Um you really need to read an intro to American Goverment book or take a class...
The president is the leader of the executive branch. The president does not control Congress. In fact, Congress was put in place to counter act the executive branch. This is called checks and balances. We implimented this type of system to stop the president from being a dictator (like you seem to think he is.) And if you look at how the system works, Congress has the final say, not the president...

The constitution is designed to make it hard to govern.  You must compromise to make things work. That is intentional because the majority is usually only 3-4 percent.  Obama won do he thought I don't have to listen to anything the other side says, even though the other side represents 47% of this country. Obama doesn't understand that and doesn't compromise and the left loves it.  The book they wrote about Obama is called Amateur because Clinton called him that.  Obama is a failure and will be gone soon.

You asked for Obamamerica, now you are going to get it.  Stand by for suck or as Pelosi says, "Embrace the suck".

#37    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:12 AM

View PostMerc14, on 01 November 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

The constitution is designed to make it hard to govern.  You must compromise to make things work. That is intentional because the majority is usually only 3-4 percent.  Obama won do he thought I don't have to listen to anything the other side says, even though the other side represents 47% of this country. Obama doesn't understand that and doesn't compromise and the left loves it.  The book they wrote about Obama is called Amateur because Clinton called him that.  Obama is a failure and will be gone soon.

Oh stop it. At this particular point in history the Repubs are just as hard to work with. They are not more compromising except in your own head. Both parties have that fault going on right now.

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#38    joc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 01 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

Um you really need to read an intro to American Goverment book or take a class...
The president is the leader of the executive branch. The president does not control Congress. In fact, Congress was put in place to counter act the executive branch. This is called checks and balances. We implimented this type of system to stop the president from being a dictator (like you seem to think he is.) And if you look at how the system works, Congress has the final say, not the president...
I have taken classes.  I know how the Government works.  What you are missing is that the President is more than just the 'leader' of the Executive Branch...he is the Leader of the Free World.  Not the dictator of anything but the Leader.  My Taekwondo Master from time to time asks the kids:  How do you know if you are a leader?  Look around and see if anyone is following!

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#39    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:21 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have taken classes.  I know how the Government works.  What you are missing is that the President is more than just the 'leader' of the Executive Branch...he is the Leader of the Free World.  Not the dictator of anything but the Leader.  My Taekwondo Master from time to time asks the kids:  How do you know if you are a leader?  Look around and see if anyone is following!

No, he is the leader of the Executive branch. The problem is  that we WANT him to be more. We WANT him to be like the Queen of England. We want him to be a figure head and a symbol of our government, not just the head of the Executive branch. That is perception, not what the Constitution says.

And 2 weeks into Obama's term nearly half of Republicans already disapproved of Obama's policies. TWO WEEKS! He cannot get people to rally around him because most never had the intention to.

If someone thinks Taekwondo is dumb and worthless, no one is going to rally around you...

Edited by HuttonEtAl, 01 November 2012 - 03:24 AM.

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#40    joc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 01 November 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

No, he is the leader of the Executive branch. The problem is  that we WANT him to be more. We WANT him to be like the Queen of England. We want him to be a figure head and a symbol of our government, not just the head of the Executive branch. That is perception, not what the Constitution says.

Perception IS a huge part of leadership though.  

And 2 weeks into Obama's term nearly half of Republicans already disapproved of Obama's policies. TWO WEEKS! He cannot get people to rally around him because most never had the intention to.

Wrong.   For months BEFORE the election...most Republicans disapproved of Obama's policies.  He cannot get people to rally around him because his history is of a druggy teenager, an adult who hang out with terrorists.  And he is a radical.  And yes, most of us had no intention to rally around someone of that ilk.

If someone thinks Taekwondo is dumb and worthless, no one is going to rally around you...

That isn't really the point.  The point is that BlackBelts lead by EXAMPLE.   So if you are a leader, people will follow that lead.  


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#41    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:49 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:


Wow...that is just impressive...see you had impressions of Obama before he even got elected to office and you KNEW you would not RALLY AROUND HIM. And now you claim it is HIS job to get people to rally around him, the people that are delusional and thinks he hangs out with terrorists?

And yes, most of us had no intention to rally around someone of that ilk.

YOU are the problem. YOU are the reason no one can rally around him. YOU are the reason he is not the leader you want him to be, because the truth is, YOU do not want him to be your leader. So stop judging him as a leader.


I am about to ignore your comments...I have been spending the majority of my time on here arguing with your idiotic comments (I'm sure you would beg to differ.) I get along with most of the Repubs on here, but you are simply to far from the mainsteam. I just do not have time to deal with your comments if you cannot except any points or ever admit you may be wrong because you cannot even consider you may be wrong.

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#42    F3SS

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 01 November 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:



Um you really need to read an intro to American Goverment book or take a class...
The president is the leader of the executive branch. The president does not control Congress. In fact, Congress was put in place to counter act the executive branch. This is called checks and balances. We implimented this type of system to stop the president from being a dictator (like you seem to think he is.) And if you look at how the system works, Congress has the final say, not the president...

Joc's making excellent and clear points I too have made many times before. We all understand checks and balances and limits of power. We don't need a college course to understand that. We also don't need a college course to understand what a good leader can do. We have Ds and Rs scrapping all over the house floor. A good leader can get people to take a deep breath and shake hands once in a while. This leader has chosen sides which can do nothing but divide and agitate. One time I had two employees working together alone for the first time. One younger about my age, the other in his 50's. in the middle of the day the younger one rang my phone. He was furious. Apparently the older guy was telling him to do things in a way he didn't want or know how to do. The younger guy was doing just fine but the older guy was basically going on about his way and the younger just became too agitated. Th younger guy was huffing and puffing to me telling me to come do something about it. I said I'll talk to him and I did. It was all petty. I called the younger guy later on and told him I don't want anymore phone calls like that. I told him we are all grown men and a small crew and that he's going to have to get used to working with that guy and I told the older guy the same. It took a few days but they eventually shook hands and both told me that the 'grown men' line made them realize the immaturity of the situation. Ok, that doesn't sound like much but they both looked to me, their leader, for a solution and apparently I did a good job. I diffused the situation and from then on they have enjoyed working with each other. Mostly, my guys work out their problems between themselves without getting me involved or acting unprofessionally in front of customers. The ones who don't, well they don't last usually by my decision. Point is, I'm practically nobody with no formal training, just decency and common sense and a leader with a presence and title as powerful and commanding as the POTUS should have the skill set required to get butting heads to shake hands occasionally at least. Obama has failed tremendously there. It is an important thing. Leadership is a requirement for POTUS. Without it, leader is only a formal title.

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:


I have taken classes.  I know how the Government works.  What you are missing is that the President is more than just the 'leader' of the Executive Branch...he is the Leader of the Free World.  Not the dictator of anything but the Leader.  My Taekwondo Master from time to time asks the kids:  How do you know if you are a leader?  Look around and see if anyone is following!

Your last sentence has far more impact than my rant, I believe. It speaks volumes. I felt like throwing in my two cents though.

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#43    joc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:52 AM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 01 November 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

Wow...that is just impressive...see you had impressions of Obama before he even got elected to office and you KNEW you would not RALLY AROUND HIM. And now you claim it is HIS job to get people to rally around him, the people that are delusional and thinks he hangs out with terrorists?

And yes, most of us had no intention to rally around someone of that ilk.

YOU are the problem. YOU are the reason no one can rally around him. YOU are the reason he is not the leader you want him to be, because the truth is, YOU do not want him to be your leader. So stop judging him as a leader.


I am about to ignore your comments...I have been spending the majority of my time on here arguing with your idiotic comments (I'm sure you would beg to differ.) I get along with most of the Repubs on here, but you are simply to far from the mainsteam. I just do not have time to deal with your comments if you cannot except any points or ever admit you may be wrong because you cannot even consider you may be wrong.
Actually, many on this forum will tell you that I have admitted to being wrong many times about a number of things...nonetheless.

Many of us pointed out that Obama was good friends with Bill Ayres before the election.  The press asked him about his relationship with Ayers once...once...and Obama said that he was just some guy in the neighborhood.
But that's okay...you don't have to bicker back and forth with me.

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#44    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:57 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 01 November 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

Joc's making excellent and clear points I too have made many times before. We all understand checks and balances and limits of power. We don't need a college course to understand that. We also don't need a college course to understand what a good leader can do. We have Ds and Rs scrapping all over the house floor. A good leader can get people to take a deep breath and shake hands once in a while. This leader has chosen sides which can do nothing but divide and agitate. One time I had two employees working together alone for the first time. One younger about my age, the other in his 50's. in the middle of the day the younger one rang my phone. He was furious. Apparently the older guy was telling him to do things in a way he didn't want or know how to do. The younger guy was doing just fine but the older guy was basically going on about his way and the younger just became too agitated. Th younger guy was huffing and puffing to me telling me to come do something about it. I said I'll talk to him and I did. It was all petty. I called the younger guy later on and told him I don't want anymore phone calls like that. I told him we are all grown men and a small crew and that he's going to have to get used to working with that guy and I told the older guy the same. It took a few days but they eventually shook hands and both told me that the 'grown men' line made them realize the immaturity of the situation. Ok, that doesn't sound like much but they both looked to me, their leader, for a solution and apparently I did a good job. I diffused the situation and from then on they have enjoyed working with each other. Mostly, my guys work out their problems between themselves without getting me involved or acting unprofessionally in front of customers. The ones who don't, well they don't last usually by my decision. Point is, I'm practically nobody with no formal training, just decency and common sense and a leader with a presence and title as powerful and commanding as the POTUS should have the skill set required to get butting heads to shake hands occasionally at least. Obama has failed tremendously there. It is an important thing. Leadership is a requirement for POTUS. Without it, leader is only a formal title.


Your last sentence has far more impact than my rant, I believe. It speaks volumes. I felt like throwing in my two cents though.

I understand what you are saying and that can be true but joc has already admitted HE WOULD NOT RALLY AROUND HIM. He said in another post that he does not trust him. So my only question is this...What would Obama have to do to get people like joc to rally around him? If there is a way to do that and he does not, maybe joc has a point...but from what I am seeing is that there is NOTHING Obama could do to be a good leader in his eyes.

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#45    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:00 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Actually, many on this forum will tell you that I have admitted to being wrong many times about a number of things...nonetheless.

Many of us pointed out that Obama was good friends with Bill Ayres before the election.  The press asked him about his relationship with Ayers once...once...and Obama said that he was just some guy in the neighborhood.
But that's okay...you don't have to bicker back and forth with me.

So you don't like the guy or trust the guy, Like Mitt Romney is any better...either way I do not give a crap because, like I have said, they are not dictators. Stalin could be president and not make any changes. None of this has anything to do with him being a leader and everything to do with the fact that you do not like him. Just admit that and maybe we can talk in the future...

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