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Taxing the Rich


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#1    RavenHawk

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:33 PM

Now that Obama is re-elected, hes going to be arm twisting the GOP to raise taxes on those that make $250,000 or more.  That is about 2 million incomes.  Obama wants to raise their bracket from 35% to 40%.  The first thing to say here is that they already pay more than their fair share at about 40% of the entire tax burden.  So how much is expected to be raised by a 5% increase?  Using the 2009 numbers, that would be about $15 billion per 1%, so for 5%, that would be $75 billion more a year.  WTF!  What is that going to do?  Run the government for about 2 1/5 months ($1.3 billion per day).  When Obama says that the rich should pay their fair share, how much do you people think it was going to be?  What is Obama really doing here?

The rich are going to have to pay a lot more before raising taxes really makes a difference at tackling the debt.  A 20% increase will give you $300 billion but the rich will be at a 55% tax bracket.  These are not times like they were in the 50s when America was prosperous with manufacturing and cash flowed quite easily.  Times are hard now.  Business will be a lot tighter with the money they make.  The environment is not conducive to expansion.  Unemployment will go up.  This is simple physics.  Is this what people want?

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#2    Taun

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 07 November 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Now that Obama is re-elected, he's going to be arm twisting the GOP to raise taxes on those that make $250,000 or more.  That is about 2 million incomes.  Obama wants to raise their bracket from 35% to 40%.  The first thing to say here is that they already pay more than their fair share at about 40% of the entire tax burden.  So how much is expected to be raised by a 5% increase?  Using the 2009 numbers, that would be about $15 billion per 1%, so for 5%, that would be $75 billion more a year.  WTF!  What is that going to do?  Run the government for about 2 1/5 months ($1.3 billion per day).  When Obama says that the rich should pay their fair share, how much do you people think it was going to be?  What is Obama really doing here?

The rich are going to have to pay a lot more before raising taxes really makes a difference at tackling the debt.  A 20% increase will give you $300 billion but the rich will be at a 55% tax bracket.  These are not times like they were in the 50s when America was prosperous with manufacturing and cash flowed quite easily.  Times are hard now.  Business will be a lot tighter with the money they make.  The environment is not conducive to expansion.  Unemployment will go up.  This is simple physics.  Is this what people want?

Like most politicians, Obama is (IMO) playing to the masses...  "See look here! I Raised taxes on the evil rich! Vote for my party!"

The actual amount of the increase is (also IMO) incidental to the raise itself... This is an old trick and practiaclly every political party of every nation has used a variant of it - probably all the way back to the Lydians - who invented currency....


#3    DieChecker

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

I agree with both previous posters. It is about being Robin Hood, not about actually fixing the Budget, or the Deficit. It is a political gimmick to fool the masses into thinking something is being done.

BTW. It would sound like less time if you say 7 weeks. Saying 2 months makes people think that is actually a long time... months.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#4    Taun

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 07 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

I agree with both previous posters. It is about being Robin Hood, not about actually fixing the Budget, or the Deficit. It is a political gimmick to fool the masses into thinking something is being done.

BTW. It would sound like less time if you say 7 weeks. Saying 2 months makes people think that is actually a long time... months.

That's why sales people price things at $19.95... Sounds so much better than $20...


#5    DieChecker

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

:tsu:

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#6    ninjadude

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

Posted Image

See the part that says Bush tax cuts. That's what it would reduce.

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#7    Ashotep

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

The tax rate will go up, they will use their deductions and they will end up paying less than the average person does.


#8    RavenHawk

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

View Postninjadude, on 07 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

See the part that says Bush tax cuts. That's what it would reduce.
That’s $75 billion?


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#9    DieChecker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:24 AM

View Postninjadude, on 07 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Posted Image

See the part that says Bush tax cuts. That's what it would reduce.
The Bush Tax cuts look like 300 billion per year at 2012, yet this tax change is supposed to bring in....  75 billion more. So, then is the new Obama approved tax system going to be called Bush Tax Cuts Lite? Maybe we should start calling the other 225 Billion (75%) the Obama Tax Cuts?? Because he is signing off on them as being OK.

I am interested in this chart how the "War in Iraq and Afghanistan" runs into 2019, yet we're supposed to pull out of Afghanistan in 2014, and supposedly pulled out of Iraq in 2010. Why then does the percentage that it accounts for never change?

The part marked, "Economic Downturn" also appears to not shrink, but actually gets a little bigger into 2019. Are we to assume that the Downturn will last another 7 years?

Edited by DieChecker, 08 November 2012 - 12:24 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#10    DieChecker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostHilander, on 07 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

The tax rate will go up, they will use their deductions and they will end up paying less than the average person does.
I agree. Without tax code reform, only a little more of that 75 billion will get to Federal Coffers then gets there now.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#11    MiskatonicGrad

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:26 AM

I can't wait to pay $20 for a loaf of bread. Oh boy!!

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#12    ninjadude

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 08 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I am interested in this chart how the "War in Iraq and Afghanistan" runs into 2019, yet we're supposed to pull out of Afghanistan in 2014, and supposedly pulled out of Iraq in 2010. Why then does the percentage that it accounts for never change?

As we've been droning on about for at least 10 years now, there was no tax increase those wars. In fact, there was a tax cut. Wars don't pay for themselves. In fact, the republicans kept the wars off the books. So yes, we will be paying for them for some time. Bush sold you down the river.

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#13    DieChecker

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

View Postninjadude, on 08 November 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

As we've been droning on about for at least 10 years now, there was no tax increase those wars. In fact, there was a tax cut. Wars don't pay for themselves. In fact, the republicans kept the wars off the books. So yes, we will be paying for them for some time. Bush sold you down the river.
So, what is this.... Like with the gas company when they spread your yearly bill over all months so you don't have a 15 dollar month in the summer and a 200 dollar month in the winter??

I don't think it works like that. You can't pay for the 2002 cost of the war started in Afghanistan in 2019...

I don't think the soldiers and the Evil Corporations that build the military equipment accept IOUs from the government to be cashed in 10 years later. All that stuff gets paid immediately and turns into Debt immediately. There is no continuing deficit being created... Unless we are still IN the WAR.

How does ending the war in Iraq not drop the Deficit amount in your graph? How does ending the war in Afghanistan in 2014 still result in Spending on both Wars in 2019??

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#14    tapirmusic

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostMiskatonicGrad, on 08 November 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

I can't wait to pay $20 for a loaf of bread. Oh boy!!

Haven't you been paying attention to this thread?

The bread will only cost you $19.95!!!!!!!!!!


#15    Dredimus

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:28 AM

View Postninjadude, on 07 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Posted Image

See the part that says Bush tax cuts. That's what it would reduce.


You seem to forget that those are Obama's tax cuts... he did sign off on it again, right?





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