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Taxing the Rich


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#91    joc

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 08 December 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Because it was probably planned that way.


On top of that I'd like to add that each years budget be planned according to only the money brought in from last years taxes, minus a little bit for an accruing rainy day fund.
Wait a minute...you can't do that!!  That would bring prosperity to everyone.   What is wrong with you people???

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#92    F3SS

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

View Postjoc, on 08 December 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:


Wait a minute...you can't do that!!  That would bring prosperity to everyone.   What is wrong with you people???

I'm treasury secretary. That's what I was hired for.


#93    RavenHawk

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:32 PM

View Postninjadude, on 05 December 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

so basically you're admitting that the timetables that you use to justify your ranting in this thread are meaningless. Thanks. 75B is 75B. It's not zero.
Itís not meaningless Ė get a clue.  The 10 year time frame is what Washington establishes, i.e. not meaningless.  $75B is my calculation, but Iíve seen others put it at about $80B.  Yes, $80B is not zero, very good for you.  But $80B does nothing to bring down the debt.  What is needed is more like $500B per year.  Yes, that is an arbitrary number.  If you want try $300B or $700B or whatever is fine, but this is the kind of numbers you need to seriously attack the debt.  Some brought up that that $80B was but only a portion of cutting a million here and there.  All I asked was, then where are all of these other millions?  Show me the rest (the $420B or whatever) that compliments the $80B, then I could see a raising of taxes to add the $80B to the $420B.  But if you donít have this $420B, then what good does the $80B do for you?

If spending isnít controlled, then on 1 January there will be a $1.2T cut across the board over the next decade.  Thatís $120B per year.  Whatís interesting is that the Whitehouse claims that letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top 2% will raise $120B.  Weíve already seen that they will be short but whatís really interesting is that what is expected from taxes nulls out the cuts.  So if the ďdealĒ is made, nothing changes.  This is not a cliff.  This is not a deal.  Weíre in the same place.  Do you understand that?  It is all a created crises made up by this Administration to hide the real reasons.  The Bush tax break only amounted to about $300 for the average person.  Repealing the tax cuts isnít going to send anyone over the cliff.  When the tax cuts were first established, people were complaining that $300 wasnít enough, so how is it a cliff now?  I guess people become dependent on the money they earn themselves.

I had listed these other reasons in another post and I will list them here again:
1) Vilify the Conservatives (they get blamed either way if we go over or not on this non cliff).
2) To wrestle the power of the purse from the House, in order to raise the debt limit (to start).
3) Repeal of the 22nd Amendment (via some artificial crises).
4) Pull the wool over our eyes (or at least to about half).
5) By blaming the GOP, it will hide all the new taxes for Obamacare (minimum of $2000 per family).

Do you get it?  Taxes are going up for everyone anyway.  Not the $300 from letting the Bush tax cuts expire but the $2000 + for Obamacare.  So if we go over this cliff, youíll hear this Administration try to blame the GOP for causing taxes to go up in the thousands, not by $300 or $600.  If the GOP caves, Obama gets control of the debt ceiling, will not cut spending and will blame the GOP for taxes going up anyway.  That is my prediction.

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#94    ninjadude

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 10 December 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

.  That is my prediction.

which are notoriously inaccurate.

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#95    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:31 AM

Alright ninja, you're in debt. You've been spending a $100,000 a year for decades. Next year you force you're friends and family to give you $7500 all together for the next ten years to pay down your debt but you never stop spending a $100,000 a year anyways so what do you achieve? More debt you say? Hmmm. Now your friends and family are pisssed. Wonder how they'll feel in another couple years when you force them into giving you money again? That's what the politicians are doing, have been doing and always will do so long as folks like you remain complacent. Why don't you care? Because you find the big cheese so dreamy? He truly is your density. Yes, I meant density.



#96    joc

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:33 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Alright ninja, you're in debt. You've been spending a $100,000 a year for decades. Next year you force you're friends and family to give you $7500 all together for the next ten years to pay down your debt but you never stop spending a $100,000 a year anyways so what do you achieve? More debt you say? Hmmm. Now your friends and family are pisssed. Wonder how they'll feel in another couple years when you force them into giving you money again? That's what the politicians are doing, have been doing and always will do so long as folks like you remain complacent. Why don't you care? Because you find the big cheese so dreamy? He truly is your density. Yes, I meant density.
You are missing something huge here.  Forget logic!  There is only one answer to every question...Government!  That's it.  That's the answer...the only answer...the eternal answer.   Well wait...there is one question that doesn't answer that way...What is the problem with America?

Edited by joc, 11 December 2012 - 05:35 AM.

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#97    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:58 AM

View Postjoc, on 11 December 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

You are missing something huge here.  Forget logic!  There is only one answer to every question...Government!  That's it.  That's the answer...the only answer...the eternal answer.   Well wait...there is one question that doesn't answer that way...What is the problem with America?
Well a Republican government would be horrible, so the answer is not government.

The answer is taxes.  Lots of hidden taxes to milk the money from the middle class that the Dems are not honest enough to demand openly.

(For Liberals...)
Spending Up = Good
Spending Down = Bad

Though many Liberals claim to be Keynesians, almost none of them practice the Saving side of Keynesian Economics....

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#98    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

View Postninjadude, on 05 December 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

YES!!!
So you think that the top 10% paying 70% of the tax burden is fair?  Iím sure that you wouldnít lose sleep if their tax bracket was 90%, eh?  I really hope you are not a judge, because you are totally clueless as to what is fair.  Just out of curiosity, why do you consider this fair anyway?  And please doesnít use the lame excuse that because they have more money.  That is not a reason to tax someone more.  People have more because they work harder or are more talented.  That is not an excuse for wealth envy.

Just because there was a 90% tax bracket in the 50s does not mean that we have the same situation now that we did then that allowed such a policy.

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#99    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:40 PM

View Postninjadude, on 05 December 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

as with political terminology, it seems you have zero understanding of taxes as well.
I do?  Just because you donít try to understand, you have no room to say anything.  All you know is tax and spend.  Youíre part of the apparatus, so you would defend such an ideology anyway.

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#100    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Postninjadude, on 10 December 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

which are notoriously inaccurate.
HeheheÖand they are?  Obama is a politician and a Socialist.  If you think like a Socialist, this is the order of battle.  I understand that what he is doing, he believes is best for America, but over 50% of the population knows heís doesnít have the best interests of this nation at heart.

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#101    joc

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

I seriously do not understand why everyone is so focused on Obama.  Obama is a tool.  I think I have the whole thing figured out.  The Super Rich don't really care what their tax rate is...because it is an illusion...they are still super rich and always will be and there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to make them not super rich.  But, there are a lot of very rich people these days...way to many...and they are usurping alot of the power that used to be only in the hands of the super rich.  Way to many millionaires and even billionaires...so, they need to thin the crowd.  Tax the hell out of them...it is all about regaining the control over everyone else.  Control.  That is the name of the game.  It isn't about money...it isn't about Taxes...it is about Control.  Control.  That's it.  Obama is a tool.  The Whitehouse is a tool.  The congress is a tool.  You and I are tools.  Tools of the Elite UnNamed Super Rich who control the Banking Industry world wide.  They have always been in control.  They will always be in control.  And this is all a game to them...the game is Control.

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#102    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

View Postjoc, on 11 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I seriously do not understand why everyone is so focused on Obama.  Obama is a tool.  I think I have the whole thing figured out.  The Super Rich don't really care what their tax rate is...because it is an illusion...they are still super rich and always will be and there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to make them not super rich.  But, there are a lot of very rich people these days...way to many...and they are usurping alot of the power that used to be only in the hands of the super rich.  Way to many millionaires and even billionaires...so, they need to thin the crowd.  Tax the hell out of them...it is all about regaining the control over everyone else.  Control.  That is the name of the game.  It isn't about money...it isn't about Taxes...it is about Control.  Control.  That's it.  Obama is a tool.  The Whitehouse is a tool.  The congress is a tool.  You and I are tools.  Tools of the Elite UnNamed Super Rich who control the Banking Industry world wide.  They have always been in control.  They will always be in control.  And this is all a game to them...the game is Control.
Youíre starting to catch on.  It is all about control.  But I really wonder who the tool is?  Is it Obama or the powerful elite behind the scenes?  The number of wealthy has nothing to do with it.  We should all be aspiring to improving our status in life.  We all get richer but the uber rich will still get even wealthier.  So what??

Iíve tried to refrain from this path of discussion.  But Hitler was considered a tool until he turned the tables.  I really think that Obama is *A* Nicolai Carpathia like character.  No, not the anti Christ, just a dictator wannabe with demon like charisma.  Heís well studied in the Constitution and knows how to dismantle it rather than defend it.  Thatís why I am focused on Obama.  He is a natural enemy to this nation and the fox has the keys to the hen house.

This fiscal cliff is but a ploy to grab control.  The GOP is screwed either way but if they stand their ground, heíll know heís got a fight on his hands and that is what you want.  Give him the fight and keep him occupied.  Donít give him the opportunity to easily move his pieces.

Raising taxes on the rich this time wonít bother the rich (itís drop in the bucket) or hurt job growth.  But it does set a trend to raise more taxes in the near future where it will effect job growth and raise taxes on the rest of us.  As Iíve said to hide the extra taxes for Obamacare.

Itís all political games and we the people can get involved and nullify the power of Obama and his backers by simply voting out the incumbent.  By doing that, the real power stays with the people and not the politician.  We need to hold this Administrationís feet to the fire to cut spending and support the GOP in giving this Administration the fight of its life.  We do that and Obama can do nothing else but do what is best for this country.  At mid terms, vote out the incumbents.  Then elect a new President and then vote them out at the next election.  Party wonít matter.  We do that and the powerful elite cannot usurp the power of this country.  If the politicians are amateurs then the elite canít retain them for any lengthy period of time.

I donít want to vilify the rich, but even among the rich, there exist the upper elite or the Bavarian Illuminati.  And the way to deal with them is to identify them and take away their power by boycotting which affects their bottom line.  But thatís difficult to do when the sheeple are easily bought with trinkets (bread and circuses) or in todayís lingo, Entitlements and welfare.  Itís amazing to see how much power we give the government by taking what it gives us.  We need to take the power back.

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#103    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

This fiscal cliff is but a ploy to grab control.  The GOP is screwed either way but if they stand their ground, he’ll know he’s got a fight on his hands and that is what you want.  Give him the fight and keep him occupied.  Don’t give him the opportunity to easily move his pieces.

That's a great line. you hear Obama and sheep crowing about how they have a mandate and it's time to let them do what the people voted for but 47 million people voted for the GOP to do what they're doing. I don't think 53 million people is a decisive mandate against 47 million peoples wishes. You ever see the movie 300? Just because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you're going down easy.


#104    ninjadude

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

That's what the politicians are doing,

No it's not. The sooner you understand that the better. Your household finances and anecdotes are now how government economic policy works.

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#105    DieChecker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

View Postjoc, on 11 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I seriously do not understand why everyone is so focused on Obama.  Obama is a tool.  I think I have the whole thing figured out.  The Super Rich don't really care what their tax rate is...because it is an illusion...they are still super rich and always will be and there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to make them not super rich.  But, there are a lot of very rich people these days...way to many...and they are usurping alot of the power that used to be only in the hands of the super rich.  Way to many millionaires and even billionaires...so, they need to thin the crowd.  Tax the hell out of them...it is all about regaining the control over everyone else.  Control.  That is the name of the game.  It isn't about money...it isn't about Taxes...it is about Control.  Control.  That's it.  Obama is a tool.  The Whitehouse is a tool.  The congress is a tool.  You and I are tools.  Tools of the Elite UnNamed Super Rich who control the Banking Industry world wide.  They have always been in control.  They will always be in control.  And this is all a game to them...the game is Control.
So the rich are trying to knock down their closest competition, using Obama? That is not bad as far as conspiricy theorys go. Kind of like when medieval lords would wipe out merchant houses that were getting to influential/rich.

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