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Is This the End of the War on Drugs?


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#16    Rafterman

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:56 PM

Hardly - cigarettes and booze are legal, but yet there's still a multi-billion dollar smuggling business in the US.

As soon as those tax stamps start going onto that weed and Hippy Joe can no longer sell the cheeb he grows in his basement, there will be smuggling.

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#17    MissMelsWell

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:22 PM

And there's not now? Oh some might attempt to grow in their homes, although under the Washington law, that will still be illegal unless you have a medical card.The after tax price the state is looking at, is only $2 more than what the going street rate is pre gram. Most people would rather pay that than take on the annoyance of growing it themselves or buying it from black market gangsters/dealers. This is one reasons the cartels are having a cow now.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 11 November 2012 - 11:22 PM.

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#18    Br Cornelius

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:26 PM

Smuggling is not the central problem, it is the criminalization of a behaviour which about a quarter of the population indulges in.
That is a moral rather than a practical approach to society - which fails because we  do not share the same moral framework.

The only moral compass which really works  is does a behaviour harm others. The current war on drugs is immoral by that standard.

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#19    DieChecker

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:35 PM

View PostRafterman, on 11 November 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Hardly - cigarettes and booze are legal, but yet there's still a multi-billion dollar smuggling business in the US.

As soon as those tax stamps start going onto that weed and Hippy Joe can no longer sell the cheeb he grows in his basement, there will be smuggling.
I agree. There will always be smuggling as long as the marijuana can be grown and processed somewhere else for less. But smuggling is a crime even if all you are smuggling is produce or sausage. Smuggling is not a drug crime, it is a tax crime.

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#20    DieChecker

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:46 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 11 November 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

Smuggling is not the central problem, it is the criminalization of a behaviour which about a quarter of the population indulges in.
That is a moral rather than a practical approach to society - which fails because we  do not share the same moral framework.

The only moral compass which really works  is does a behaviour harm others. The current war on drugs is immoral by that standard.

Br Cornelius
Just curious where that 25% figure comes from? AFAIK, actual repeat users is much less then 10%. Perhaps the 25% includes even those who have only used it once?

Here is what I found online...

Quote

11.5% of Americans (more than 25 million) have smoked marijuana in the last year.

Quote

22.6% of high school seniors in the US used marijuana in the past 30 days compared with 18.7% who smoked cigarette, according to 2011 data.
http://www.backslash...tics&Itemid=195

It is in the Main a activity of the Young. The youth don't actually (usually) have a strong moral framework. I'm not going to decriminalize something and add it on top of Alcohol and Tobacco, just because a bunch of pot-head kids want it to have a legal buzz at their Friday night parties. Discounting the Youth (up to 24 these days), what is the real percentage of adults who use pot regularly. Saying 25% is just propaganda that is bias and un-referenced.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#21    MissMelsWell

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

I asked my daughter, who's 25, how many of her friends smoke pot... it's not many. They're the Dare generation. However, I'm almost 46, I'd say a good 25-30% of my friends who are educated, professionals, responsible family people, indulge on a relatively regular social basis. Others, indulge when offered. Very few of my friends would say absolutely no when offered.

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#22    acidhead

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:16 AM

Once..... I smoked a joint with George W. Bush.  I told him we were smoking Kush but he kept insisting it was Northern Lights.

lol

Edited by acidhead, 12 November 2012 - 05:17 AM.

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#23    Br Cornelius

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:06 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 11 November 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Just curious where that 25% figure comes from? AFAIK, actual repeat users is much less then 10%. Perhaps the 25% includes even those who have only used it once?

Here is what I found online...

http://www.backslash...tics&Itemid=195

It is in the Main a activity of the Young. The youth don't actually (usually) have a strong moral framework. I'm not going to decriminalize something and add it on top of Alcohol and Tobacco, just because a bunch of pot-head kids want it to have a legal buzz at their Friday night parties. Discounting the Youth (up to 24 these days), what is the real percentage of adults who use pot regularly. Saying 25% is just propaganda that is bias and un-referenced.

Even if we accept your lesser figure of 10% my point is equally valid. What is even more significant is if that 10% of youth enter the criminal justice system and prison because of this habit. This will generally cause them to become career criminals and expose them to harder and more dangerous drugs and behaviour. This is one of the primary reasons why America has one of the highest rates of youth imprisonment in the world. This cannot be good for American society as a whole.
As people have pointed out, occasional Pot use is probably highest amongst the professional classes - which puts to bed the notion that it is debilitating and detrimental to society.

Br Cornelius

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#24    Orcseeker

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:07 PM

This is why Ron Paul wanted to take control from the Federal system and keep such decisions solely to the state. The states are more than capable of choosing the right laws.


#25    Babe Ruth

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

No, it's certainly not the end of the drug prohibition.

A very good thing, but not the end by any means, as other posters have noted.

The feds guard their prohibition jealously, and Obama and Holder have demonstrated that time and again.  It provides much illegitimate authority, and huge stimulus for the Prison Industrial Complex.


#26    praetorian-legio XIII

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 11 November 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Oh, and retribution from the Feds will be swift. We'll see it in the order of months, not years. Because if they don't do something quick, like the next two years, Oregon, California, New Mexico, and possibly a couple of east coast states like Maryland and Vermont, will model initiatives after the initiatives in Colorado and Washington and pass legalization as well. Then it'll be too overwhelming for the Feds to deal with.

Also, on a more puzzing note, Washington also had a referendum on the ballot to allow same sex marriage... marijuana legalization passed with a much wider percentage than same sex marriage! Although same sex marriage did indeed pass, but it was close. I wanna know which homophobes voted for pot, but not marriage. LOL.

So now your homophobic if you don't agree with same sex marriage?

(sorry so far off topic but just caught my attention)

Edited by praetorian-legio XIII, 12 November 2012 - 04:58 PM.


#27    The Silver Thong

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:15 PM

View Postpraetorian-legio XIII, on 12 November 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

So now your homophobic if you don't agree with same sex marriage?

(sorry so far off topic but just caught my attention)

Not really but one may have a religious doctrine they feel owns the word marriage or homosexual feelings themselves that thay may feel shamefull of for the previous reason lol


I don`t smoke pot but I do see the huge amount of money wasted to regulate it.

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#28    aztek

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

it is b.s.
we see how it works in Ca. state says you can, than feds come, destroy stores, and arrest owners. and say no you can't.
war on drugs is an industry, they aren't interested for this war to end.
amount of drugs only goes up. drugs are not any harder to find that it was before wod. real streets results of this war, big fat zero.
dealers\cartels themselver wont let it happened.

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#29    DieChecker

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:53 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 12 November 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Even if we accept your lesser figure of 10% my point is equally valid. What is even more significant is if that 10% of youth enter the criminal justice system and prison because of this habit. This will generally cause them to become career criminals and expose them to harder and more dangerous drugs and behaviour. This is one of the primary reasons why America has one of the highest rates of youth imprisonment in the world. This cannot be good for American society as a whole.
As people have pointed out, occasional Pot use is probably highest amongst the professional classes - which puts to bed the notion that it is debilitating and detrimental to society.

Br Cornelius
Well... I agree with you that your point is valid. That putting these kids in jail is not helpful. Probably instead of criminalizing these kids we should give them something else to do that will improve their future. Even public service might be not so helpful. Not sure what the best choice would be, but just letting kids use drugs and hibernate is not going to win for them either.

While I agree that pot is not supposed to harm anyone (other then little kids according to some studies), I don't think making it legal because kids want it is the way to go. Teens want to drive very fast too, and many of them are good responsible drivers, partly due to good reflexes. But that does not mean we need to increase all speed limits by 15 mph nationwide.

Edited by DieChecker, 13 November 2012 - 02:54 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#30    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

Pot has been with us since the beginning of time - failure to acknowledge that is the crime here.
What I find most disturbing is that by leaving it to the criminals we have super skunk - which is dangerous.

Overall though, I find the prevalence of Cocaine use among the rich and influential far more disturbing. It has a corrupting influence on public life which I think is directly responsible for things like the celebrity culture and the financial crisis. Not only that, but it is also one of the most environmentally damaging things imaginable. Terrible on every level.

Br Cornelius

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