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Bombs away in Israel & Gaza.. Again...


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#166    Professor T

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:23 PM

View Postand then, on 20 November 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Well Obama is the man they've been waiting for, I think.  At least he has had the stance of working to bring the Arab/Muslim element into better relationship.  I have to say, though, that it doesn't seem to be very successful.   They have taken what he offered and then looked at him and said "AND THEN?"  (sorry, couldn't resist)....   It never seems to be enough for either side.

I think the fact that after over half a centry of conflict and devision that has spread across the world it is nearing time for the rest of the world to just step in and remove the power to create conflict from both sides.. AND THEN perhaps after twenty years of not being able to fight each other the people of that nation (as a whole) might be able to live together..


#167    Yes_Man

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

Ceasfire failed by the looks of things


#168    shaddow134

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 20 November 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I think the fact that after over half a centry of conflict and devision that has spread across the world it is nearing time for the rest of the world to just step in and remove the power to create conflict from both sides.. AND THEN perhaps after twenty years of not being able to fight each other the people of that nation (as a whole) might be able to live together..

Unfortunately both sides suffer from the same problem,one has to have the last word or shot would be the more appropriate term.The problem is now that the political situation has moved in the favour of Hamas and they may always feel like they have the advantage,which of course they haven't in a Military sense.

If the US pulls the financial plug on Egypt then it would be a matter of time before you had a regional conflict.,

Edited by shaddow134, 20 November 2012 - 09:32 PM.

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#169    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

View Postshaddow134, on 20 November 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Unfortunately both sides suffer from the same problem,one has to have the last word or shot would be the more appropriate term.The problem is now that the political situation has moved in the favour of Hamas and they may always feel like they have the advantage,which of course they haven't in a Military sense.

If the US pulls the financial plug on Egypt then it would be a matter of time before you had a regional conflict.,

Agreed Shadow, unfortunately both sides take their EYE FOR AN EYE mentality to the extreme max, with this current attitude pervasive among the people of the region it may never be possible for peace to exist in the Middle East.
Olso came so close, Arafat almost had Hama on his side in acceptance to the Israeli right to exist as a nation, but Israeli intransigence on settlement expansion in the West Bank doomed the peace process and evidently lead to the Second Intifada in 2000.


#170    Professor T

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 20 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Ceasfire failed by the looks of things

Yeah, wishfull thinking perhaps..
I don't think first attempts at cease-fires ever work because one side or the other always has to have that last word.


#171    Professor T

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

Far out the Media have come under attack something chronic!

A building housing the Agence France-Presse office in Gaza has just been hit by an Israeli airstrike, the MENA photo manager for AFP Patrick Baz tweeted. All AFP journalists are reportedly safe.

Three Palestinian Reporters were also killed yesterday..

Two more palestinian reporters killed recently, not sure who by, there's some reports stating that Hamas have killed a journalist or two so far.

An Israeli airstrike has killed two journalists working for the Hamas-run al-Aqsa TV station.

Also over the past three days buildings housing press offices have been targeted by the IDF..

Say's a lot about the value of real information doesn't it.. or perhaps something about the desire to stop that flow of information..


Hearts and minds...


#172    MichaelW

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 20 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

2. No doubt rockets are made to kill, much in the same way that guns are made to kill. This doesn't mean that killing is the primary reason for their use. They are used, primarily, to spread fear, not death. This is their main use. Similar to the fact that the main use of a gun, though it was created to injure or kill, is to deter violence, not to actually inflict it.

They are there to kill. Fear is the byproduct of said killing. If you wanted to spread fear, there are much more effective ways. Tell them you will engage on a campaign of suicide bombings for instance.

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3. Yes, no **** Sherlock. 3 people killed last week, but please try to understand the text in my posts (you always had a hard time with that - it gets tiresome): "than rockets that hadn't killed anyone in 3 years". Can you spot the word that shows your mistake? "hadn't" means past tense, "Haven't" would have meant up until the present.

Let me guess. You say that they aren't for killing and then say they hadn't killed anyone in three years. Either way, you're still wrong.

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1. Gaza, and more importantly, the people of Gaza, are still occupied. This was defined at the Nuremberg Trials, by a load of smart, Western lawyers, not by me.

With the intention of actually physically occupying Germany. They didn't pull all their troops out and then shelled Germany whenever something they didn't approve of happened. The Allies had troops in there, boots on the ground. You know, an actual occupation?

Quote

2. I didn't say that apartment blocks are a legitimate military target. In fact, if you'll please note, I actually described the rockets as a war crime.

That's not the point. You've previously said in the past and justified it that a bomb in a cafe would be a legitimate military target because of the fact that despite the presence of civilians, one of the people there "might" be in the military.

That alone is enough to write off whatever you post as the ramblings of someone who is blatantly being obtuse.

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3. So you would be of the view that Israel is a terrorist organisation?

The current administration would be. Israel as an entity? No. An entity cannot be a terrorist. Individuals and groups can be terrorists.

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Applying only your own logic "If an individual or a group commits an act of violence or something similar which is designed purely to instill fear and terror in the conscious of a civilian populace then by definition, they are terrorists", then Israel must be. After all, Israel's entire policy in Gaza is exactly as you describe.

And as I said, the current administration would be.


Quote

The reason Israel, or the U.S., or Russia are not 'terrorist organisations', or at least the reason they can not be defined as such, is because the term 'terrorist' does not allow for governments and armies to be classed as such.

Ever heard of the word "state terrorism"? Just because you are a government doesn't mean you can support or authorise acts of terrorism. They wouldn't be terrorist organisations in the same breadth as Hezbollah or the IRA or ETA, but they would still have committed an act of terrorism and therefore that administration that authorised said acts would be classified as terrorists. Fact is, a state is just as likely to sponsor or conduct an act of terrorism to achieve its own ends than a smaller group. You only to have to look as far back as the Rainbow Warrior to see this.

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Do you see number four (mentioned in the paragraph as well)? The big boys of the World (U.S., Russia, China, Britain, Israel, etc) define terrorism in this way so that they themselves cannot be defined as such.

It's so they can exonerate themselves from anything that they may have committed in the past. Certainly, the French government

Quote

Sort of ironic from an Israeli standpoint - as soon as Hamas were elected into government, as soon as they rose from 'subnational' level, it became impossible to throw that term around legitimately without opening themselves up to the same label.

The only difference is, Israel is an internationally recognised state and it's government is a representative (until the next elections) of the Israeli people. Hamas is recognised by few countries but no one recognises it as the legitimate government of Palestine.

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#173    docyabut2

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

Iran is giving these millitant hamas gangs rockets, bombs and they are hiding them in people houses . Did you see the hamas gang on the news  killing six  people  and dragging one to death on motorcycles, acusing them of siding with isreal and being spies.They just a terrorist gang and the poor paletinian people who want to live in peace are the ones suffering from their actions.


http://www.foxnews.c...hrough-streets/

Edited by docyabut2, 21 November 2012 - 12:26 AM.


#174    Professor T

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:01 AM

Quote

Journalists are civilians and are protected under international law in military conflict," Robert Mahoney, New York-based CPJ's deputy director, said in a statement. "Israel knows this and should cease targeting facilities housing media organizations and journalists immediately."

http://www.ibtimes.c...r-crimes-887630

The Media War, aside from the bombs and missiles, is targeting the Freedom of information in this conflict. Information, truthes, these are just as important as the lives being lost in my opinion because without the truth about what has occured so far and what is occuring as we follow this will only cloud peoples judgement in the future.. The Hearts and Minds campaign going on around the world is costing lives..

Israel is playing the "We are justified because we are being targeted and we are suffering" game..

Hamas is playing the "We are justified because we are being suppressed and our civilians are being targeted" game..

The propaganda war raging on the Airwaves and the Web and on your TV at home is distracting people from the fact that neither side of the conflict are justified in what they are doing, and keeping the world divided in the "Who is Justified" game only serves to perlong the suffering of both sides because it distracts the world from the real issue right now which is attaining a ceasefire.

Edited by Professor T, 21 November 2012 - 01:08 AM.


#175    Professor T

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:38 AM

Here's an interesting headline... US blocks ‘unbalanced’ UN Security Council statement calling for Gaza ceasefire..

In the context of Power to destroy or power between each side, what part of this conflict is balanced?

This is what happens when nations take sides..

http://rt.com/news/u...ks-gaza-un-185/

Edited by Professor T, 21 November 2012 - 01:43 AM.


#176    Alienated Being

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

Majour disorder in the Middle-East, it seems.


#177    Professor T

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:05 AM

Lol, sorry, had to laugh & share this..

Sorry Israel supporters, but the Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube accounts of Israeli Deputy Premier Silvan Shalom have been hacked and filled with pro-Palestine status updates. ZCompanyHackingCrew claimed responsibility for this latest act of cyber war against Israel. This is part of the Anonymous attacks.. You'll have to check out the status updates in the link, some of the language is a bit too fresh. This is pretty embarracing for such a high ranking official..

http://rt.com/news/a...e-minister-200/


#178    shanlung

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

It is time for the rest of the world to allow Hamas to be armed properly, to the same extent as Israel.
Instead of disarming Hamas and tied their hands to be guinea pigs for the bombs and phosphorus shells of Israel.

Let them fight on even ground.  And we will see Israel BEGGING for peace.


#179    and then

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:23 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 21 November 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Here's an interesting headline... US blocks ‘unbalanced’ UN Security Council statement calling for Gaza ceasefire..

In the context of Power to destroy or power between each side, what part of this conflict is balanced?

This is what happens when nations take sides..

http://rt.com/news/u...ks-gaza-un-185/
Unbalanced due to the agreement not addressing the end of rocket fire.     “The draft press statement failed to address the root cause of the current escalation – the continuing barrage of rocket attacks from Gaza against Israel,''
If Israel stops shooting before the missiles are gone it will be a matter of weeks before it all starts again.  So yeah, unbalanced.  Egypt is trying to be guarantor of a peace but Israel doesn't trust the MB to be there - they want the US to be the guarantor.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#180    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:35 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 21 November 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

http://www.ibtimes.c...r-crimes-887630

The Media War, aside from the bombs and missiles, is targeting the Freedom of information in this conflict. Information, truthes, these are just as important as the lives being lost in my opinion because without the truth about what has occured so far and what is occuring as we follow this will only cloud peoples judgement in the future.. The Hearts and Minds campaign going on around ther world is costing lives..

Israel is playing the "We are justified because we are being targeted and we are suffering" game..

Hamas is playing the "We are justified because we are being suppressed and our civilians are being targeted" game..

The propaganda war raging on the Airwaves and the Web and on your TV at home is distracting people from the fact that neither side of the conflict are justified in what they are doing, and keeping the world divided in the "Who is Justified" game only serves to perlong the suffering of both sides because it distracts the world from the real issue right now which is attaining a ceasefire.

"Who is Justified"...Quite true Prof, two wrongs don't make a right.

Perhaps this dysfunctional way of thinking is just normal for people raised in the major Abrahamic religions. I experienced it being raised as a Catholic and taught by the lovely Irish nuns TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER, AS I HAVE LOVED YOU, yet at the same time I was also taught about the church's concept of a 'JUST WAR', a treatise that I could never accept. The idea of killing no matter what the reason just seemed so contradictory to what I had learn about Christ, the man of peace.

I too wish that this mindless bloodbath stop, but unfortunately the Zionist and Islamic fanatics on either side of the fence continue upping the ante and may just decide to go for it all.

It is obvious that Netanyahu is using this event to consolidate power and present himself as the savior from the Palestinian menace in the upcoming January elections. But as to how far is he willing to take this 'action' I believe may depends on his Arabic and Muslim neighbors reactions to his military moves on the Palestinians. I pray Netanyahu will not raise the stakes higher and fold his cards, and agree to a sensible ceasefire.

But if he attempts to crush Hamas and brutally punish the Palestinian population that supports the guerrillas, which is what many of the Zionist extremists are calling for (check my earlier post in "A Gaza invasion leads us where?"), then how would the Arab and Muslim world react? Will they allow a Gaza Holocaust or will they rush in defense of their Palestinian brothers?

We are indeed living in dangerous times.

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN, 21 November 2012 - 02:48 AM.





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