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Ethics and legal issues behind abortion

abortion support for abortion pro-life pro-choice morality

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Poll: Ethics and legal issues behind abortion (32 member(s) have cast votes)

Morally you support abortion only when

  1. The woman's life is at fatal (or similar) risk (16 votes [26.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  2. Rape case scenario (14 votes [23.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.33%

  3. Genetic deformities of the fetus (12 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. As a 'contraceptive method' to unwanted pregnancies (2 votes [3.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.33%

  5. All case (15 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  6. Never - not even when the woman's health is at fatal risk (1 votes [1.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.67%

Legally when do you support abortion?

  1. The woman's life is at fatal (or similar) risk (5 votes [15.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.62%

  2. Rape case scenario (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Genetic deformities of the fetus (1 votes [3.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.12%

  4. As a 'contraceptive method' to unwanted pregnancies (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. All case (25 votes [78.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.12%

  6. Never - not even when the woman's health is at fatal risk (1 votes [3.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.12%

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#76    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:26 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 18 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yes, he claimed to be a teacher; on top of that, years ago he claimed that if a person allowed their child (I don't remember whose child, exactly) to go on top of a roof, and believe that if they jumped off, they would fly... they would actually be able to fly. I remember that conversation. It was around Christmas (December of 2009 I think) one year.

And this is why I don't take him very seriously. And this is an ad hominem attack, before you self-proclaimed experts in formal logic deconstruct my post.

And, sorry; I thought this was directed at Mr. Walker, because he claimed on different occasions to be a teacher... which I had a hard time believing. The misunderstanding was at the fault of my own, but my point still stands about Walker.
I think he said he is/was an english teacher or something.

I also seem to recall Mr Walker claiming he'll be like a robot in the future.


#77    Cybele

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:13 AM

"Deformities of the fetus" can range from cosmetic deformities like a cleft-lip to an infant being born without a brain (a stillbirth, of course). Where do people who support abortion in this case draw the line?

What about disorders, like Down Syndrome, where the child will be intellectually disabled and require more care and supervision, but can still be relatively happy?

Edited by Cybele, 19 November 2012 - 07:14 AM.

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#78    Alienated Being

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 November 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

I also seem to recall Mr Walker claiming he'll be like a robot in the future.
LOL


#79    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 November 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

From the article I posted

"A UCSF-led research team has identified the first molecular step that allows a week-old human embryo to attach to the uterus."


Rlyeh.. this is not what I was getting at...Your previous sentence was...

The baby is attached to the womans body...  <-- As the sentence  was written, it was incorrect The correct sentence should have been  ( as you wanted to use the word attached )   -  The baby is attached to the umbilical cord, which is connected to the placenta inside the female body... The baby is not attached to the female body, it is inside it

Example - If you had of said.. -  "Our muscles are attached to our bodies".... Again that sentence is incorrect, saying attached to something  indicates  they are attached on the outside of our bodies ...   It should read -  Our muscles are attached to our skeleton... You wouldn't need to say inside the body, for we already know that..
Difference is - inside and out..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 November 2012 - 12:29 PM.

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#80    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 19 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Rlyeh.. this is not what I was getting at...Your previous sentence was...
Oh so it is different when the article uses "attach to". The sentence I quoted makes no reference to "inside", they must be talking about outside the uterus!! :rolleyes:

Quote

The baby is attached to the womans body...  <-- As the sentence  was written, it was incorrect The correct sentence should have been  ( as you wanted to use the word attached )   -  The baby is attached to the umbilical cord, which is connected to the placenta inside the female body... The baby is not attached to the female body, it is inside it
You're arguing for the sake of it. Being more descriptive does not make a less descriptive statement incorrect.

Quote

Example - If you had of said.. -  "Our muscles are attached to our bodies".... Again that sentence is incorrect, saying attached to something  indicates  they are attached on the outside of our bodies ...   It should read -  Our muscles are attached to our skeleton... You wouldn't need to say inside the body, for we already know that..
Difference is - inside and out..
This has already been addressed, muscles are part of the body, so yes your example sounds weird but not for the reason you cited.


#81    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Oh so it is different when the article uses "attach to". The sentence I quoted makes no reference to "inside", they must be talking about outside the uterus!!


Anything attached TO the body, is on the outside.. It's a fact...   Just like  anything attached  TO other objects, they are seen on the OUTSIDE of that object.. ....And NO, you at that point did not mention the uterus

Quote

You're arguing for the sake of it.   

Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining.. You know fine well I rarely argue with you..In fact I cannot recall last time I did..  So give it a rest

Quote

so yes your example sounds weird

Only to those that do not understand it ..  If I tell you I have a tumour on my brain.. does that tell you it's attached to my body?  Or attached to the brain? Which makes it  INTERNAL ..because the brain is on the INSIDE..   If the tumour was attached to my body, it would be seen on the outside

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 19 November 2012 - 02:54 PM.

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#82    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 19 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Anything attached TO the body, is on the outside.. It's a fact...   Just like  anything attached  TO other objects, they are seen on the OUTSIDE of that object.. ....And NO, you at that point did not mention the uterus
So the embryo is attached to the outside of the uterus?

You can't have it both ways, if attach to object means OUTSIDE, then according to you the article is also wrong.
I've already shown you what the article says, the sentence in question does not say inside.

"A UCSF-led research team has identified the first molecular step that allows a week-old human embryo to attach to the uterus."

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 November 2012 - 03:06 PM.


#83    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 November 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

So the embryo is attached to the outside of the uterus?

You can't have it both ways, if attach to object means OUTSIDE, then according to you the article is also wrong.

That point you raised in ref to the uterus,  was not the point that I was getting at.. All I was saying to you was - When toy said these words - The baby is attached to the body .. . I tried to tell you, that how you worded that was incorrect, because how it is worded, indicates the baby was attached on the outside of her body   The baby is attached inside ..That is all I am trying to say here .. I didn't expect a full blown argument .  I figured you would just say - Yea well I meant the uterus.and so on ..    I had no issue with your article posted

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#84    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 19 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

That point you raised in ref to the uterus,  was not the point that I was getting at.. All I was saying to you was - When toy said these words - The baby is attached to the body .. . I tried to tell you, that how you worded that was incorrect, because how it is worded, indicates the baby was attached on the outside of her body   The baby is attached inside ..That is all I am trying to say here .. I didn't expect a full blown argument .  I figured you would just say - Yea well I meant the uterus.and so on .. I had no issue with your article posted
This is getting ridiculous, you said "anything attached  TO other objects, they are seen on the OUTSIDE of that object".
Why are you making an exception when the article says it?

Edit: It's been your entire argument that "attach to" means outside.

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#85    Sakari

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

I had to also check this one :

As a 'contraceptive method' to unwanted pregnancies


Only for the fact that if my 12 or 13 year old daughter in some stupid scenario ( not so much rape ) became pregnant.

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#86    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

This is getting ridiculous, you said "anything attached  TO other objects, they are seen on the OUTSIDE of that object".
Why are you making an exception when the article says it?

When I first approached your post  ( pages ago )  The article was never up for question, in fact it wasn't mentioned at the time..  Just your sentence alone. - Baby attached to the body..  

Anyhoo.. you are right it is getting ridiculous .. So its ends here with me..  I didn't mean for it to turn into an argument.. You know me, I rarely argue anything with you.. I was just making a point..

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#87    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:57 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 18 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yes, he claimed to be a teacher; on top of that, years ago he claimed that if a person allowed their child (I don't remember whose child, exactly) to go on top of a roof, and believe that if they jumped off, they would fly... they would actually be able to fly. I remember that conversation. It was around Christmas (December of 2009 I think) one year.

And this is why I don't take him very seriously. And this is an ad hominem attack, before you self-proclaimed experts in formal logic deconstruct my post.

And, sorry; I thought this was directed at Mr. Walker, because he claimed on different occasions to be a teacher... which I had a hard time believing. The misunderstanding was at the fault of my own, but my point still stands about Walker.
I am a teacher and have been for nearly 40 years.

You either misunderstood or misrepresent what i said about flying.  That is too complex to go into now.

Most days, especially when the wind is in my face and there is a down hill slope,  i have a go at flying, and  a lot of days i try to walk through walls.

The point is of course that i do not succeed, but that is not a reason to stop trying. In life, if you stop trying, you never can succeed.

I do a lot of night flying in lucid dreams and obes, so perhaps you got that confused. And my brother once jumped from a shed roof with a home made parachute attached, which we were experimenting with as a drag chute for a pushbike. Actually he did it a few times, but that was considered normal child's play back in the mid 1900s.

I satisfied my urge to fly  by hang gliding, which is about as close as a human can get to natural flight.  No one should ever straight out tell a child they cannot fly (or  do anything else),  but NO i wouldnt recommend a child jumping from a high roof, especiaily without a parachute :innocent:

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

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#88    Alienated Being

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:40 PM

Walker, I most-certainly did not misinterpret what you said. In fact, I can go back and retrieve the exact quote... if you'd like.


#89    Mr Walker

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

View PostAlienated Being, on 20 November 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Walker, I most-certainly did not misinterpret what you said. In fact, I can go back and retrieve the exact quote... if you'd like.

Happy for you to do so, and we can re-examine the context of the debate.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#90    Blood_Sacrifice

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:16 AM

Off all the things to discuss here, you people are arguing for semantics ("Attatched to, attatched in...")! Oh well. At least made me smile in such a serious topic." :)

Edited by Blood_Sacrifice, 21 November 2012 - 10:20 AM.

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