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Tempering religion with lie-exposing science

religion science deception god faith

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#1    behavioralist

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

Can we temper the right to religious worship with the right of skeptics to apply Behavioral Science (deception/veracity science) to proving that the clergy is composed of irreligious conspirators?

Religion is something like a trial. Some people claim to have witnessed "The Power of Faith!"

(faith being how unneccesary it is to find out for oneself, to complete or awaken the mind,

instead of serving the dissembled agenda of a leader)

and these purported witnesses are giving testimony as the clergy.

Someone certainly NEEDS to ascertain how sincerely these clergy-persons are applying the followers' moneys in God's name!

---on behalf of the followers as well as the skeptics;

and even if the followers are a bit too inclined to prefer to perpetuate their blind faith in their clergy.

Shouldn't blindness of spending and devoting time be discouraged by applied science?

Is some mischief exempt from investigation because it prefers to "answer only to God"?

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Credulousness is when the process of being made more useful to duplicitous exploiters leaves us presuming to have become superior. Something is growing that is killing the mind; thereby orphaning the children in one's very care.
Learning, if not credulous, is always growing. Teaching is always degenerating. Glibness is a vice in either case, the former because one will wish one had said more, and the latter because one will admire one's rubbish unto death.

#2    Ever Learning

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:14 PM

you do know that tithing is optional and that most churches do keep record of where the donations go dont you? its the church goers responsiblity to go to a church whos priest is beyond reproach. you seem in my eyes (they may be erring) that you are attacking the catholic church but are being vague in what denomination you are critising. leave the critising to church goers, they are more informed.
people have faith due to an experience of god, them choosing to disbelief because of your non experience when they have had an experience would be silly. its better to cross reference there own experiences with others who have had simalar experiences so they can get at the truth.

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#3    Ever Learning

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

22.20pm so have to go to sleep apoligies for starting an argument that i cant see through to the end.

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#4    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

View Postbehavioralist, on 15 November 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Can we temper the right to religious worship with the right of skeptics to apply Behavioral Science (deception/veracity science) to proving that the clergy is composed of irreligious conspirators?

Religion is something like a trial. Some people claim to have witnessed "The Power of Faith!"

(faith being how unneccesary it is to find out for oneself, to complete or awaken the mind,

instead of serving the dissembled agenda of a leader)

and these purported witnesses are giving testimony as the clergy.

Someone certainly NEEDS to ascertain how sincerely these clergy-persons are applying the followers' moneys in God's name!

---on behalf of the followers as well as the skeptics;

and even if the followers are a bit too inclined to prefer to perpetuate their blind faith in their clergy.

Shouldn't blindness of spending and devoting time be discouraged by applied science?

Is some mischief exempt from investigation because it prefers to "answer only to God"?


I have many qualms about religion.  However the tone of your post strikes me as very condescending and irritating.  People believe for a variety of reasons - many of which I have trouble identifying with, personally.  However my personal feelings do not negate the veracity of the beliefs of others and neither do yours.  If you think that you are going to swoop in and save the religious from themselves by insisting that they are wrong and foolish for following the teachings of clergy I think you will find yourself very angry and disappointed.  You seem angry already.  

Live and let live.  The religious beliefs of every person are their own right to decide.  Whether they tithe is their own decision to make.  Your only goal, it seems was that of S hit-starting...which is hardly respectable.

Edited by orangepeaceful79, 15 November 2012 - 11:11 PM.


#5    behavioralist

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:05 AM

To believe the drama when it is theater is for enjoyment (hard to do when you are a leading expert in behavioral science, so that "between" the "lines" of consciously applied histrionic devices is where the glaringly obvious parts are; I can describe every actor I have seen as he actually is in real life, which he consideres his own private insight, something no one ever has or will see).

To believe the exact same drama, when it is self-aggrandizement, is criminal negligence.

And it's a fact that, in the recollected histories of our species, no person has ever actually met any adult; every adult being, in his own esteem, a securely and eternally covert entity, The Private Self.

My point is, that today, there is no such security. The deceptions grind to an absolute and painful halt when you or anyone face me or another scientists of the same ilk.

And I'm here, with the moderator's forebearance, to show you exactly how it's done! ---how to undo the aversions which insist it's impossible.

Please reserve posting your skepticism in that regard until I have presented what some are calling our "Fringe Science" of Behavior and Cognition. You'll know it when you see it; you'll hate how hard it is to read if you're not a ready student of post-doc treatises.

To prepare yourself you might google or wiki  The Little Albert Experiment, to find out the difference between "impossible" and conditioned aversion. That's the nub.

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Credulousness is when the process of being made more useful to duplicitous exploiters leaves us presuming to have become superior. Something is growing that is killing the mind; thereby orphaning the children in one's very care.
Learning, if not credulous, is always growing. Teaching is always degenerating. Glibness is a vice in either case, the former because one will wish one had said more, and the latter because one will admire one's rubbish unto death.

#6    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:43 AM

Attached File  30294179.jpeg   89.55K   26 downloads


#7    pbarosso

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:53 AM

View Postbehavioralist, on 16 November 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

To believe the drama when it is theater is for enjoyment (hard to do when you are a leading expert in behavioral science, so that "between" the "lines" of consciously applied histrionic devices is where the glaringly obvious parts are; I can describe every actor I have seen as he actually is in real life, which he consideres his own private insight, something no one ever has or will see).

To believe the exact same drama, when it is self-aggrandizement, is criminal negligence.

And it's a fact that, in the recollected histories of our species, no person has ever actually met any adult; every adult being, in his own esteem, a securely and eternally covert entity, The Private Self.

My point is, that today, there is no such security. The deceptions grind to an absolute and painful halt when you or anyone face me or another scientists of the same ilk.

And I'm here, with the moderator's forebearance, to show you exactly how it's done! ---how to undo the aversions which insist it's impossible.

Please reserve posting your skepticism in that regard until I have presented what some are calling our "Fringe Science" of Behavior and Cognition. You'll know it when you see it; you'll hate how hard it is to read if you're not a ready student of post-doc treatises.

To prepare yourself you might google or wiki  The Little Albert Experiment, to find out the difference between "impossible" and conditioned aversion. That's the nub.

now you are smarter than everyone else. wow.

the pursuit of knowledge will force you to pick a side. Choose wisely.
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#8    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:02 AM

View Postorangepeaceful79, on 15 November 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:


Live and let live.
Good to see statements like that ford Lincoln mercury ;) proving that not all good people are spiritual.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#9    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:23 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 November 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Good to see statements like that ford Lincoln mercury ;) proving that not all good people are spiritual.

Attached File  30300401.jpeg   71.27K   11 downloads

.....but I'ma go ahead and thank you anyway, Seeker79...I think.  :lol:


#10    White Crane Feather

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:17 AM

View Postorangepeaceful79, on 16 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:



Attachment 30300401.jpeg

.....but I'ma go ahead and thank you anyway, Seeker79...I think.  :lol:
Haha yes it was

"law 8 live and let live" ---- Ford Lincoln Mercury

"the Postman" .... The movie.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#11    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

Seeker79 I have never seen the FLM bit you are referncing, hence my confusion.  i'm glad you found it noteworthy, however.  ;)  cheers!


#12    Alienated Being

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:00 PM

You are very condescending, and that says a lot coming from somebody like me. Though, I do agree with you about organized religion stealing money from people. As far as I am concerned, it is all nonsensical; however, if people are stupid enough to spend their money on this nonsense, then that is their loss.

Edited by Alienated Being, 16 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.


#13    behavioralist

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:03 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 16 November 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

You are very condescending, and that says a lot coming from somebody like me. Though, I do agree with you about organized religion stealing money from people. As far as I am concerned, it is all nonsensical; however, if people are stupid enough to spend their money on this nonsense, then that is their loss.

There I must disagree with you: any insanity allowed to pose as right hurts everyone and everything. A mind that isn't distracted cherishes everything, and thereby no loss is not ones own loss.

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Credulousness is when the process of being made more useful to duplicitous exploiters leaves us presuming to have become superior. Something is growing that is killing the mind; thereby orphaning the children in one's very care.
Learning, if not credulous, is always growing. Teaching is always degenerating. Glibness is a vice in either case, the former because one will wish one had said more, and the latter because one will admire one's rubbish unto death.

#14    orangepeaceful79

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

caution....do not feed the troll.  he just gets bigger and stronger when you do that.  :tu:


#15    White Crane Feather

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 November 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:


Haha yes it was

"law 8 live and let live" ---- Ford Lincoln Mercury

"the Postman" .... The movie.

It's at
2:39:20




"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-





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