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Forced religion

forced religion

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#1    CelestialStar

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:21 AM

Some parents force their religion on their kids, in example, some christian parents dragging their child to church every Sunday and will punish the child for expressing disbelief or not wanting to go. Is it fair....no.     is it right........no.
What are your thoughts on the matter, remember, we are not here to argue, just to calmly express our thoughts on the matter.

Did you ever notice that kids aren't born worshiping, they are most times forced to do so,
religion isn't innately known at birth, it is to me seemingly forced down the throats of innocent children at a young age.
Sometimes, a religion forced can cloud judgement and cause hatred to appear toward others.....Your thoughts?

You want my proof that it's real?
Where is your proof that it isn't?

#2    pallidin

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:35 AM

This can happen. Not only with Christian faiths, but also with extremest Islamic faiths.
So sad to those young children.

Edit: And with all "faiths" I imagine...

Edited by pallidin, 16 November 2012 - 04:37 AM.


#3    Purplos

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM

Some parents force their ideas about healthy eating on their kids, in example, some parents make their children eat their vegetables before dessert and will punish the child for not eating their vegetables or not wanting to skip dessert. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Some parents force their love of sports on their kids, in example, some sporty parents drag their child to baseball games and sign them up for soccor and will punish the child for saying they'd rather take art classes or not wanting to go. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Some parents force educational ideals on their kids, in example, some university-educated parents insist their child study for the college entrance exams and get into a top name school and will punish the child for expressing a desire to study a trade instead. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Really?

A parent making rules for their children is (usually) fair and right. No, the child won't always agree with them.
I would venture a guess that the VAST number of parents who bring their children to church or temple or whatever do not use any different coercive tactics to get them there than they do to get the to visit boring old Aunt Martha and her fifty cats.

People see "religion" and they love to get all passionate about how it is FORCED on kids. So are hundreds of other things while you're growing up. My parents made me take piano lessons twice a week and practice every day! That's a lot more disruptive to how I wanted to live my life than church on sunday.

Extremists make the news because they are the exception to the rule.

What about you anti-religion people? Are you ramming the belief that it's all fake down your children's throats? Probably as much as the other way around... meaning... yah, some people do, but most don't.

Edited by Purplos, 16 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.

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#4    CelestialStar

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:56 AM

I have no intention of superimposing my will of religion (or disbelief thereof) on them,
i try not to superimpose at all

You want my proof that it's real?
Where is your proof that it isn't?

#5    notoverrated

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

as a parent you get to choose what you teach, no one is perfect and at some point you will probably force something on your kids/others without even realizing it.

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#6    Xanthurion2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:43 AM

if the church has a sunday school or something like that for the kids then in many ways, it is actually good. everybody needs to have a little understanding of the bible (whether they believe it or not) and the sunday school classes can do that and teach certain moral lessons in ways that are interesting and not every parent would know how to do. but if the child is forced to sit with the adults, most of the time they won't understand what is being taught and it is pointless.

SRS

#7    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:18 AM

View Postpallidin, on 16 November 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

This can happen. Not only with Christian faiths, but also with extremest Islamic faiths.
So sad to those young children.

Edit: And with all "faiths" I imagine...
i'll take your hate to islam have to bring it self in presence in all topics

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#8    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

as to the OP i think imposing religion on kids is wrong
coz eventally if a kid ... or a teen for that matter when not comfortable with it
he/she will break away from it in most unpleasent way
but does that teach people not to impose it on their kids .. nope

however there is better way to do so
a parent who believe a religion to be suitable for their children
would merely introduce that religion to the kids and when the kids are adults
they decide weather to take it or not
introduced is key word here

apart from that .. i think there is MANY things should be " imposed " on kids by parents
and am sure there is like millions of parents who reliaze that is true
the kids complain all the time but certain things should be imposed
religion .. is not one of those things

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#9    Mr Walker

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:40 AM

View PostCelestialStar, on 16 November 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

Some parents force their religion on their kids, in example, some christian parents dragging their child to church every Sunday and will punish the child for expressing disbelief or not wanting to go. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.
What are your thoughts on the matter, remember, we are not here to argue, just to calmly express our thoughts on the matter.

Did you ever notice that kids aren't born worshiping, they are most times forced to do so,
religion isn't innately known at birth, it is to me seemingly forced down the throats of innocent children at a young age.
Sometimes, a religion forced can cloud judgement and cause hatred to appear toward others.....Your thoughts?
It is not just a parent's right, but their responsibilty and duty to educate their child in all their knolwedge and beliefs.  The first things a parent teaches are; how to speak, how to read, and how to think. Imagine if a parent refused to do that because, in doing so, it imposed its language on the child. It forced the child to speak, and read, and think, in the language, style, accent etc., of its parent. How evil.? lol

A parents knowledge and beliefs, expressed via language, include spiritual /religious ones, ones on the environment, the role of women, racism,  and general ethical and moral issues etc. A n adult wil have knowledge and ideas which a child does not. It is the repository of knolwedge for the child and must pass on ALL it knows and believes, to give a child a  first/basic foundation of knowledge and understanding.  That includes faith, spiritual beliefs, or other mechanisms an adult has found useful and viable in life.
Where else should a young child pick up its ideas values beliefs and ethics but from its parents?.

Human children are born with a mind which processes information in a quite well understood way. They universally create the concept of a "god" without any outside education as long as they are taught enough language to develop thought processing.

But the form/ concept of "God" will depend on outside influences.  A parent has the prime legal and moral right to be that  outside influence on a child in everything. Only where a parents beliefs( like immorality violence etc) conflict with the wider social norms can a society interfere with a parents rights to teach and educate their children (Eg if a parent teaches its child it is ok to steal or beat up other peo0le to gain an advantage)

And a child WILL learn from its parents by default. Later, it will learn from, and add information from, other sources. If those sources are convincing enough, they may outweigh a child's early learnings. Otherwise, if a child finds its parent's teachings wise productive and useful, it will retain them, and rightly so.

To put it simply I have a right and a duty to teach my children not to steal or to hurt others. Those things are a part of my religious beliefs. I have just as much right and duty to teach them WHY i believe those principles, and how it relates to my religious/spiritual  ethical and moral  core values. For example I know that god dwells with in me, and all about me,  and that I am a part of the universal god (but this principle would apply even if I only believed this)

And so my life should be based on that knowledge  (or belief) and i should act in the knowledge of that fact (or belief.) How then can i steal from, or hurt, another person who is also a part of god and of whom god is a part? My child both deserves, and needs, to know and understand those beliefs  (or knowledge)
And that takes time and education to achieve.

Edited by Mr Walker, 16 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#10    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:25 AM

I won't force Becky to go to church, nor will I force my own spiritual beliefs on to her..   I allow her to attend Sunday school and church to learn more about Christianity..  If she tells me she doesn't want to go, I will not force her  or punish her for for it... I cannot imagine forcing her to be religious.. I do not see the importance of it   She can learn about it, but she is not under any obligation to stick with it

The only things I will do is - Lay encouragement on things that are more important - Like education, being responsible, taking part in activities,  and how to stand on her own two feet

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 16 November 2012 - 11:26 AM.

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#11    libstaK

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

View Postnotoverrated, on 16 November 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

as a parent you get to choose what you teach, no one is perfect and at some point you will probably force something on your kids/others without even realizing it.
This makes the most sense to me.

We are all born into a culture, we have a heritage and a lineage.  Every animal on the planet is the same and all creatures teach their young what they have learned and believe will help them survive.

For the religious, belief and worship in their God and church is what they believe has helped them get through life and be a good person. People like to think the best of themselves and that they have great skills to get through life.  Those people who love their parents or grandparents, aunts, uncles or cousins will naturally imitate what they have learned from them, as far as their forebears go, they will do it out of respect for the knowledge passed from generation to generation.

Basically, it's not about religion being "shoved" down kids throats it about sociology and the impact of the cultures we are born into and raised in, including their history and the respected Icons in the history of each specific group.

Everything is ultimately "shoved down childrens throats".  Be it food, language, beliefs, mannerisms, proper social behaviour, hygiene and health practices, cooking, cleaning, education, recreational and social outlets aka: if the parents are tennis fans, the kids are gonna be watching alot of tennis and playing it too, they will also be very knowledgeable about it from listening to the parents discuss the game and comparing notes on who did what well and who did poorly.  Inspite of this not all kids in this environment will grow liking tennis, some may even hate it depending whether they think their parents were fanatical about it.

We are all pretty much to blame for something that someone else believes if we stop to think about it - isn't that interesting?  Makes me think of that whole "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thing in a particularly amusing way.

I personally believe that people do the best they can with what they know and can respect and give credit to anyone in any belief system for that effort on their part, well done for trying to find your way in life and teaching your kids the best way you know how to find their way too imo.

Edited by libstaK, 16 November 2012 - 12:06 PM.

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#12    GreenmansGod

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

I think forcing your beliefs on a child is a good way to get them to reject your belief system. Children become teenagers and it the nature of the beast to rebel. I know a lot of Pagans who can't tell their parents about their beliefs, because their parents will go off the nut.  Our high priestess is in this situation and she is an adult. This can happen in all religions not just Christianity.  If you want to go to Church and you have young children you can't just leave them home, but there comes a point when child need to investigate their own ideas and beliefs. They should have the freedom to do so.  There are people who actually reject their own child because they don't believe as they do. That happened to a friend in high school, her folks kick out because she didn't want to be a J.W. That is very poor parenting if you ask me. They should have been charged with neglect.

Edited by Darkwind, 16 November 2012 - 12:11 PM.

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#13    CelestialStar

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

View PostPurplos, on 16 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Some parents force their ideas about healthy eating on their kids, in example, some parents make their children eat their vegetables before dessert and will punish the child for not eating their vegetables or not wanting to skip dessert. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Some parents force their love of sports on their kids, in example, some sporty parents drag their child to baseball games and sign them up for soccor and will punish the child for saying they'd rather take art classes or not wanting to go. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Some parents force educational ideals on their kids, in example, some university-educated parents insist their child study for the college entrance exams and get into a top name school and will punish the child for expressing a desire to study a trade instead. Is it fair....no. is it right........no.

Really?

A parent making rules for their children is (usually) fair and right. No, the child won't always agree with them.
I would venture a guess that the VAST number of parents who bring their children to church or temple or whatever do not use any different coercive tactics to get them there than they do to get the to visit boring old Aunt Martha and her fifty cats.

People see "religion" and they love to get all passionate about how it is FORCED on kids. So are hundreds of other things while you're growing up. My parents made me take piano lessons twice a week and practice every day! That's a lot more disruptive to how I wanted to live my life than church on sunday.

Extremists make the news because they are the exception to the rule.

What about you anti-religion people? Are you ramming the belief that it's all fake down your children's throats? Probably as much as the other way around... meaning... yah, some people do, but most don't.

I just love how people jump into conclusions without proof.  I never said I was anti religious or thought it was ALL fake.Also, i think it is wrong to tell a kid, "if you don't do a good job worshiping you go to hell"

You want my proof that it's real?
Where is your proof that it isn't?

#14    AwakenAscension

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

I give my children free access to any religious material they need in order to develop their own conclusions and tell them the facts that I know, the pro's & con's and whatever debate I know about it. But I always make sure they know that they must find the truth for themselves. I also realize that it is impossible to not, in some way, influence their beliefs, just by being a participating, good parent.

Edited by AwakenAscension, 16 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.

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#15    freetoroam

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:21 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 16 November 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

i'll take your hate to islam have to bring it self in presence in all topics
How is this a hate against islam? i would more say it started of as a hate towards Chritians. BUT, my initial reaction was exactly the same, why single out one religion when it should have said all of them?
I would not know if a child was a christian, but would if it were a muslim, mainly because the girl is wearing the head gear and so is the mother....just like the authodox Jews will be wearing clothing so others can identify what they stand for.
I am more threatened by the child being brought up to follow islam in a fanatical way than i am with a child brought up as a christian.....hopefull not all muslm children will go to Pakistan to learn how to hate the West, but the fanatical parents are more likely to be doing in what ever country they live in, its the influence it has on the child when they grow up which is the issue, and if it has affected the way they feel about their fellow human and hate is involved, then it only be a bad thing.

Edited by freetoroam, 16 November 2012 - 01:25 PM.

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