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The Ancient Alien Theory Is True


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#3841    S2F

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 02 January 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Is that one in the upper left the mask of the Lone Ranger?  Maybe the ancient aliens were into westerns too.

That reminded me of this...

Posted Image


:lol: :tu:

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#3842    zoser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

View Postkampz, on 02 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Puma Punku still makes my head scratch. What were the reasons why it wasn't made by something resembling aliens or advanced humans along with the help of us humans if we did? Is it because of primitive tools we Humans had? It appears that the site got blown away or tore apart. Where did the stones that were used go? Was it just a few pieces that were transported and used in other building sites?

What other pieces of work do people here have a hard time explaining while ignoring the recent posts in this thread?

I'm in the group with something else existing on Earth that was more intelligent then us Humans at the time and these visitors or inhabitants could of looked exactly like us or looked different. Although I remember that it doesn't have to work that way.

There simply is no other way to explain Puma Punku if the relics are studied carefully.  Precision engineered blocks with near perfect flat vitrified surfaces, with remarkably consistent drilling as though carried out by machine tools on a production line.

Neither is there any explanation for the engraved crosses and other pattern that have almost perfect corners.  Expert Stonemason and scupltor Roger Hopkin's comments said it all really after he was shown pictures.  He said  "We could only do it using CNC machines following a template and even then it wouldn't come out as good".

Posted Image


#3843    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

even all that does not mean aliens did it.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#3844    Abramelin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:28 AM

View Postzoser, on 02 January 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

There simply is no other way to explain Puma Punku if the relics are studied carefully.  Precision engineered blocks with near perfect flat vitrified surfaces, with remarkably consistent drilling as though carried out by machine tools on a production line.

Neither is there any explanation for the engraved crosses and other pattern that have almost perfect corners.  Expert Stonemason and scupltor Roger Hopkin's comments said it all really after he was shown pictures.  He said  "We could only do it using CNC machines following a template and even then it wouldn't come out as good".

Can you show me a photo of a vitrified stone in Puma Punku? I wasn't aware there were any in Puma Punku.


#3845    Abramelin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

Something about a possible way to chemically alter the surface of stones to give them a shine or glaze, without any need for 'vitrification'. Check again Davidovits' article I posted pages ago. Main thing to remember: there are many plants containing oxalic aid, and citric aid, also readily available, is able to make the brew more 'potent'.

How to Make an Acidic Liquid to Polish a Stone

In general, acids are very poor agents for stone polishing. This is because decorative stones such as granite, marble and limestone consist primarily of calcium carbonate (CaCO3), which readily dissolves in acid to form carbon dioxide (CO2), water (H20) and a calcium salt. Worse still, the acid doesn't eat away at the stone uniformly; rather, it leaves surface with a swath of microscopic pockets. This process of altering the surface of a stone with acid is known as "etching".

However, there is one commercially-acid available that is useful in polishing stone: oxalic acid. When applied to the CaCO3, the result is CO2, H20, a calcium salt and thousands of microscopic pockets. The difference is that the calcium salt formed, calcium oxalate, happens to be a strong yet extremely fine-grained abrasive. Once this abrasive salt has been formed, simply polish with a camel hair pad, either by hand or SLOWLY and GENTLY by machine. The fine grains of calcium oxalate will wear down the edges of the acid-etched micropockets, resulting in an excellent surface shine.


http://www.ehow.com/...lish-stone.html

And I know granite doesn't contain CaCO3 (despite what the article says) or very little, but it does contain CaO which works even better.






.


#3846    Abramelin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

I have kept using the expression, "chemically altered", but it is in fact about a chemical reaction.... that leaves no chemical traces !!

The next is about marble, true, but like I said, it will also work (and better) on granite that contains about 2 % of CaO.

Unlike crystallization, steel wool is not required when using an oxalic acid polish. Most often, polishes are used with a red or natural floor pad under a 175rpm floor machine. Floors with deeper scratches or other damage, typically must be diamond honed prior to using marble polishing products. During marble polishing, the reaction taking place is shown below.
H2C2O4 + 2CaCO3 ¨CaC2O4 + CO2 + H2O

Again the resulting surface is more glossy than the original stone surface. The difference is that the reaction taking place using oxalic acid does not chemically alter the surface of the stone. The calcium oxalate (CaC2O4) formed in the reaction is washed away with the slurry from the process leaving behind a smoothed and polished stone surface that has not been chemically altered.


http://multimedia.3m...d1qGd1q111111--


What we need here is someone who does this daily to tell us about her or his experiences.



Btw, Zoser, if you go to the beginning of that pdf, you will read this:

Crystallization (also known as re-crystallization or vitrification) is a method of creating a gloss on calcium bearing stone floors such as marble, limestone, and travertine.

So even if the ancients used vitrification, they didn't have to use some source of extreme heat.


#3847    psyche101

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Lifting by Sound.

This is an avenue that needs to be explored.  Much folklore mentions that this is the energy source that explains how the megalithic blocks at the various ancient sites were lifted.  

Yes indeed, folklore. It's a bit embarrassing when adults believe in folklore, but hey, here we are. I do feel sorry for you. Nothing other than folklore could be used to come up with such a fantasy solution. Personally, I find hiding in conjecture lazy, but each to their own I guess. I suppose some think themselves "cool" to remove themselves so far from an academic solution.

View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:


The box on top of Leedskalnin's tripod is widely thought to be the secret of how he lifted the stones at Coral Castle.  I don't wish to get into the debate of block and tackle ratings which has been done before.  

Posted Image

Wel let's not get into an argument then, you have not won a single one that I have seen to date, but you have illustrated deliberate ignorance to an embarrassing level and indicated that such to you equals a rebuttal. Again, I pity such however back to the photo. here is Ed with that structure and a block and tackle attached to it.

Posted Image




Seeming as we have a picture of a block an tackle attached the the very structure in question, can I assume you are responsible for the calculations that say what we are witnessing above is impossible?


View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

The box was apparently never found, and we have some idea by what appears to be wires connected to it that it could have been some speaker box,  There was a generator of sorts in his workshop that could have been part of the set up.

If that produced power at any stage, it was more likely for the DC motors he had lying around.
There are guide pulleys and eyebolts set into almost all the major blocks on Coral Castle. The method was leverage.

View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Conjecture yes.  

I am not sure I would even go that far. Really, it's a little bit childish even for conjecture.

View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Remember though what his own personal claims were as well as the stories about children seeing him levitating blocks, and the truck driver's anecdotal tale, and it starts to make a bit of sense.

Yes it does, he was a grumpy old man who had a chip on his shoulder the size of the east gate and created a "grinch like" air of mystery around him. Stories were likely to abound as they tend to with all eccentric personalities. Howard Hughes went through quite a traumatic personal period as well at one stage.
What does not make sense is grown people making up fairy tales to ohh an ahhh over.

View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Then there is this:

When the stone was in position the monk behind the small drum gave a signal to start the concert. The small drum had a very sharp sound, and could be heard even with the other instruments making a terrible din. All the monks were singing and chanting a prayer, slowly increasing the tempo of this unbelievable noise. During the first four minutes nothing happened, then as the speed of the drumming, and the noise, increased, the big stone block started to rock and sway, and suddenly it took off into the air with an increasing speed in the direction of the platform in front of the cave hole 250 meters high. After three minutes of ascent it landed on the platform.

Continuously they brought new blocks to the meadow, and the monks using this method, transported 5 to 6 blocks per hour on a parabolic flight track approximately 500 meters long and 250 meters high. From time to time a stone split, and the monks moved the split stones away. Quite an unbelievable task.

Dr Jarl knew about the hurling of the stones. Tibetan experts like Linaver, Spalding and Hue had spoken about it, but they had never seen it. So Dr Jarl was the first foreigner who had the opportunity to see this remarkable spectacle. Because he had the opinion in the beginning that he was the victim of mass-psychosis he made two films of the incident. The films showed exactly the same things that he had witnessed.

The English Society for which Dr Jarl was working confiscated the two films and declared them classified. They will not be released until 1990. This action is rather hard to explain, or understand. : End of trans."


Completely irrelevant made up crap? Why bother with this? Ed wrote his own thoughts on magnetism. Have you read the excerpts he left?

Here is an interesting look into Ed's thoughts:



It is not sound to ALLOW THE WEAKLINGS TO VOTE.  Any  one who is too
   weak to MAKE  HIS  OWN  LIVING is not strong enough to vote, because
   their WEAK INFLUENCE  weakens the  state  and  a  degenerated  state
   cannot exist very long, but every state should be sound and lasting.

   By voting, the voters dictate the state's destiny for  times to come
   and then to  allow  such  a weak influence to guide the state, it is
   not wise and so you see one should  vote  according  to  how  HE  is
   carrying the State's burden. (the right to vote, not the # of votes)

   Another unwise thing about equal voting is that it gives the LOAFERS
   AND WEAKLINGS the  power  to TAKE PROPERTY AWAY from  PRODUCERS  and
   STRONGER PEOPLE, and another unjust thing about equal voting is that
   it gives the LOAFERS AND WEAKLINGS an EASY LIFE (leached)  FROM  the
   (activities of the) producers and leaders.

Or there is this gem of "insight"


MINERAL, VEGETABLE AND ANIMAL LIFE

What is life? Mineral life is to hold the mineral matter together.  Vegetable
life is to hold the-- vegetable matter together and increases in volume.
Animal life is to hold the animal matter or flesh together increase the volume
and give motion to muscles. The base of life is the North and South pole
magnets. The magnets are indestructible.



View Postzoser, on 01 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:



Lets not hey. I think you have done enough already. That website is an embarrassment to humanity. If aliens ever do land, should they see that junk, it sure will be like Columbus and the Indians.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#3848    psyche101

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostOniomancer, on 01 January 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

It was wild. Jgirl did a strip tease.


Damn.

I always end up at the wrong party.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#3849    psyche101

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

View Postkampz, on 02 January 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Puma Punku still makes my head scratch. What were the reasons why it wasn't made by something resembling aliens or advanced humans along with the help of us humans if we did? Is it because of primitive tools we Humans had? It appears that the site got blown away or tore apart. Where did the stones that were used go? Was it just a few pieces that were transported and used in other building sites?

What other pieces of work do people here have a hard time explaining while ignoring the recent posts in this thread?

I'm in the group with something else existing on Earth that was more intelligent then us Humans at the time and these visitors or inhabitants could of looked exactly like us or looked different. Although I remember that it doesn't have to work that way.


Have you ever had a decent look at the architecture, and mathematic precision used in the originally older and far more magnificent pantheon?

If it does not have to work that way, honestly, why consider it? I seriously have never "got that bit".

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#3850    zoser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

Some of the detail in these Brien Foerster clips is highly revealing.

Here is a close up of the blocks at Sacsayhuaman

Posted Image

Two things:  More evidence of melting fusing or melting on the diagonal join.  Why these blocks have this and the others don't is not clear.

Also looking at the top of the bottom block what are those imprints?  This is very common at Sacsayhuaman and looks to me like something made an imprint when the stone was in it's clay like state.  Handling marks or something similar.

Very curious.

Edited by zoser, 02 January 2013 - 11:45 AM.

Posted Image


#3851    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

could that "fusing" not be mud that's over the decades/centuries gotten into the cacks and hardened?

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#3852    zoser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have kept using the expression, "chemically altered", but it is in fact about a chemical reaction.... that leaves no chemical traces !!

The next is about marble, true, but like I said, it will also work (and better) on granite that contains about 2 % of CaO.

Unlike crystallization, steel wool is not required when using an oxalic acid polish. Most often, polishes are used with a red or natural floor pad under a 175rpm floor machine. Floors with deeper scratches or other damage, typically must be diamond honed prior to using marble polishing products. During marble polishing, the reaction taking place is shown below.
H2C2O4 + 2CaCO3 ¨CaC2O4 + CO2 + H2O

Again the resulting surface is more glossy than the original stone surface. The difference is that the reaction taking place using oxalic acid does not chemically alter the surface of the stone. The calcium oxalate (CaC2O4) formed in the reaction is washed away with the slurry from the process leaving behind a smoothed and polished stone surface that has not been chemically altered.


http://multimedia.3m...d1qGd1q111111--


What we need here is someone who does this daily to tell us about her or his experiences.



Btw, Zoser, if you go to the beginning of that pdf, you will read this:

Crystallization (also known as re-crystallization or vitrification) is a method of creating a gloss on calcium bearing stone floors such as marble, limestone, and travertine.

So even if the ancients used vitrification, they didn't have to use some source of extreme heat.

Take a look at the above picture.  It's much more than polishing.  It's a deep melting causing almost a fusion effect.

That would need copious quantities of liquid, which I strongly believe refutes this theory.  Any theory has to fit all the evidence Abe and so far the only one that I see that applies to every case is heat.

Posted Image


#3853    zoser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 02 January 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

could that "fusing" not be mud that's over the decades/centuries gotten into the cacks and hardened?

Whatever it was burned deep into the andesite and was then somehow smoothed.  A bit like a plasterer smooths over his work with a radius tool while the plaster is still very wet,

Also look at the two dimples.  As I said to Abe, any theory needs to take account of all the evidence.  It's no good bolting on sub-theories to other theories.

I totally agree with Alfredo Gamarra.  These blocks were handled in a clay like state.  The imprints and marks testify to that.  Some of these marks can be seen on the walls of Cuzco too.

More evidence of handling prints:

Posted Image

Looking at that impossibly tight fit on the bottom right hand side, it would make much more sense if the blocks were handled in a clay like state.  There is no other way that this could be achieved with such enormously large blocks.  There is much less scope for trial and improvement style stone removal possible with such large blocks.

Edited by zoser, 02 January 2013 - 12:04 PM.

Posted Image


#3854    Abramelin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

View Postzoser, on 02 January 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Take a look at the above picture.  It's much more than polishing.  It's a deep melting causing almost a fusion effect.

That would need copious quantities of liquid, which I strongly believe refutes this theory.  Any theory has to fit all the evidence Abe and so far the only one that I see that applies to every case is heat.

I see a gloss, and that's it.

You keep talking about 'copious quantities of liquid', and I tell you that was more than readily available plus that we don't know how potent the chemical mix was they could have used.

People use the chemical technique to create a gloss, but no one uses extreme heat to get the same effect.

You will have to show me a stone of which has been proven it was treated with extreme heat.


#3855    zoser

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I see a gloss, and that's it.

You keep talking about 'copious quantities of liquid', and I tell you that was more than readily available plus that we don't know how potent the chemical mix was they could have used.

People use the chemical technique to create a gloss, but no one uses extreme heat to get the same effect.

You will have to show me a stone of which has been proven it was treated with extreme heat.

Well here's another tell tale piece of evidence to support the soft stone theory. I was pondering that if this was how they did achieve the perfect fit, then when the weight of the stones settled you would expect to see a dome (radius) effect as the stone material bulged outward as it then set hard again.

Sure enough here it is.  Look carefully at the stones on the right where the dome is more pronounced:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Undeniable.  They had the technology to cut perfectly flat surfaces.  We know that from other sites in the area.  Why are these not flat?  They bulged as they were fitted into place caused by the shear weight of the stone.

Furthermore the bulge is more pronounced at the bottom where the larger mass is exerted.

Would we expect to see it in the smaller blocks?  Only to a much lesser extent,  Let's see:

Posted Image

Generally the larger blocks display the effect but the smaller ones do not.  Exactly what I would expect to see

It's nice when evidence supports the theory.

Edited by zoser, 02 January 2013 - 12:38 PM.

Posted Image