74 replies to this topic

[susieice]

Hasina, on 20 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

I never did make it as a top notch reporter... But yes, my tongue in cheek joke was meant to be inaccurate. I do wonder though, are there blueprints of the Titanic and the Olympus that can be compared?

Yes. And the architect of both ships (all three really) was on board the Titanic and lost in the sinking. The blueprints are in the archives of Harland and Wolff, the builders. He knew every inch of those ships. It is also known that the Olympic had set sail from New York and was on it's way back to England when the Titanic sank. She recieved the messages from the Carpathia to relay to the White Star Line. She offered to help, but was told by the Carpathia that all that could be done was under control.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/RMS_Olympic

Edited by susieice, 21 November 2012 - 01:59 AM.

[Likely Guy]

susieice, on 20 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

A U-boat did sink another White Star Line ship, the Lusitania.

Maybe also Titanic's other sister ship, HMHS Britannic (aka Gigantic)?

http://www.titanican.../britannic.html

Edited by Likely Guy, 21 November 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[susieice]

Britannic couldn't be mistaken for the Titanic or the Olympic. It was still in drydock and hadn't been launched yet. Just making sure. And yes, It was used as a hospital ship during WWI and was sunk by an explosion.
http://en.wikipedia..../HMHS_Britannic

Edited by susieice, 21 November 2012 - 04:49 AM.

[Likely Guy]

Interesting link - Violet Jessop

http://en.wikipedia....i/Violet_Jessop

[susieice]

Thanks LG. That is an interesting link. Poor lady. That's a string of bad luck.

[Likely Guy]

susieice, on 21 November 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Britannic couldn't be mistaken for the Titanic or the Olympic. It was still in drydock and hadn't been launched yet. Just making sure. And yes, It was used as a hospital ship during WWI and was sunk by an explosion.
http://en.wikipedia..../HMHS_Britannic

No, never meant to suggest a 'switcheroo' occured. Just to suggest that 'Titanic's Last Secrets' haven't all been answered yet.

[susieice]

Not at all. With the entire debris field mapped now, there will be a lot more studying done. The book, Titanic's Last Secret, is the 2005 expedition which found the 2 sections of the double hull and kind of pointed the way to where the rest of the wreckage would be. The thesis of the book has already been proven wrong. They concluded the ship grounded on the iceberg and ripped the bottom hull. Ballard saw the large blips in 1985 but never explored it. No one did. Everyone went to the bow and stern. Now the whole missing middle section where the breakup occurred has been found to the east of the stern. In large pieces. Much more to learn and questions to answer.

Edited by susieice, 21 November 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[regi]

I hope the OP doesn't mind me passing on this fascinating story....that it's not too far off topic.
Ballard wanted to find the wreck of the Titanic; as an oceanographer and geologist, he said it was his Mt. Everest.
He was formerly a commander in the US Navy, and he approached the Admiral about the idea of locating the Titanic...hoping the Navy would fund an expedition.
Ballard had technology that the Navy hadn't; the Navy used sonar- which can't distinguish between objects, and Ballard's camera (called Argo) could.
The Admiral wasn't interested in the Titanic, but did want Ballard to do something for the Navy, and that was to explore the wrecks of two Nuclear Subs- the Thresher and the Scorpion.
So, Ballard made a deal with the Admiral; he would go on what was this top secret mission to those two wrecks, and his expedition to locate the Titanic would be the cover story!

The Navy had already investigated these wrecks, but had been limited in their technology.
They knew what happened to Thresher, and it's a very tragic story. In 1963, 129 lives were lost when it imploded after reaching it's "crush depth". There had been a leak discovered in the engine room which couldn't be stopped and it worsened and eventually caused a loss of power and battery power wasn't enough to sustain it and it fell to a fetal depth
The Navy wanted to visit the site to be sure that no one had been poking around. The Admiral said " The ocean is littered with interesting intelligence, I can tell you."
Ballard was to locate the nuclear thing (sorry) to see that it was there and that it wasn't a harm to the environment. (He did, and it wasn't.)

The Navy wasn't sure about the Scorpion (1968)...they only knew that it had imploded after dropping below it's crush depth. There was speculation by some that it was torpedoed, or that it's own torpedo had malfunctioned and activated. (There's a term for that I don't remember.)
Ballard's examination of the site revealed that neither of those things occurred, so it's still a mystery as to why the sub went below crush depth.
99 lives were lost.

When Ballard was searching for these wrecks, he first came across the debris fields.
That information gave him the idea that instead of looking for the Titanic, "look for it's trail", which he knew would be to the south of the wreck because of the current.
He mapped out an area of 30 square miles and made sweeps a mile apart.
What had taken others months... and they never did find it, took Ballard only nine days.
Of course, he was elated because he'd found the wreck- but he was also very much relieved because he was afforded only fourteen days in which to do it!

I should add that this info came from a program called "Titanic: Ballard's Secret Mission". It was on very recently...National Geographic Channel.

Edited by regi, 21 November 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[Taun]

As for the "Swtich theory" between Olympic and Titanic... A simple internet search reveals this...

"In August of 1991, a team of explorers brought back proof from the wrecked Titanic to prove that it was indeed the Titanic.   It seems that all of White Star Line's ships have a special symbol and number punched on all of the steel.  After examining the hull the explorers saw the unmistakable number that clearly identified it as the Titanic.  When they returned they released pictures and videos, which clearly dismissed this conspiracy."

http://library.think...26/SSwitch.html


Unless of course the CT's think that they while they were switching all the silverware, towels, linen, china, stationary and decorations, they also switched all the hull plates and structural members...


Edit to add:

Also at the time of Titanics sinking, The Olympic was 580 miles (930km) West and slightly south of Titanics position steaming EAST - returning from New York...  So... how did they switch - and why would they if both were sea worthy?

Edited by Taun, 21 November 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[susieice]

Exactly. All ships are given serial numbers, just like cars are. Those vin numbers are also put on different parts of the car as well and can be compared.
The Olympic changed course to help her sister but by the time she was 100 nautical miles away, the Carpathia told her they had picked up all the lifeboats and the Titanic was gone. Both ships. At sea. Same time. With passengers.

Wanted to add just because I'm so excited. Got the tickets for us to go to the 100th Anniversary Titanic Exhibit at the Franklin Institute. February 22nd. Can't wait!

Edited by susieice, 22 November 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[susieice]

regi, on 21 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

I hope the OP doesn't mind me passing on this fascinating story....that it's not too far off topic.
Ballard wanted to find the wreck of the Titanic; as an oceanographer and geologist, he said it was his Mt. Everest.
He was formerly a commander in the US Navy, and he approached the Admiral about the idea of locating the Titanic...hoping the Navy would fund an expedition.
Ballard had technology that the Navy hadn't; the Navy used sonar- which can't distinguish between objects, and Ballard's camera (called Argo) could.
The Admiral wasn't interested in the Titanic, but did want Ballard to do something for the Navy, and that was to explore the wrecks of two Nuclear Subs- the Thresher and the Scorpion.
So, Ballard made a deal with the Admiral; he would go on what was this top secret mission to those two wrecks, and his expedition to locate the Titanic would be the cover story!

The Navy had already investigated these wrecks, but had been limited in their technology.
They knew what happened to Thresher, and it's a very tragic story. In 1963, 129 lives were lost when it imploded after reaching it's "crush depth". There had been a leak discovered in the engine room which couldn't be stopped and it worsened and eventually caused a loss of power and battery power wasn't enough to sustain it and it fell to a fetal depth
The Navy wanted to visit the site to be sure that no one had been poking around. The Admiral said " The ocean is littered with interesting intelligence, I can tell you."
Ballard was to locate the nuclear thing (sorry) to see that it was there and that it wasn't a harm to the environment. (He did, and it wasn't.)

The Navy wasn't sure about the Scorpion (1968)...they only knew that it had imploded after dropping below it's crush depth. There was speculation by some that it was torpedoed, or that it's own torpedo had malfunctioned and activated. (There's a term for that I don't remember.)
Ballard's examination of the site revealed that neither of those things occurred, so it's still a mystery as to why the sub went below crush depth.
99 lives were lost.

When Ballard was searching for these wrecks, he first came across the debris fields.
That information gave him the idea that instead of looking for the Titanic, "look for it's trail", which he knew would be to the south of the wreck because of the current.
He mapped out an area of 30 square miles and made sweeps a mile apart.
What had taken others months... and they never did find it, took Ballard only nine days.
Of course, he was elated because he'd found the wreck- but he was also very much relieved because he was afforded only fourteen days in which to do it!

I should add that this info came from a program called "Titanic: Ballard's Secret Mission". It was on very recently...National Geographic Channel.

Thanks for the story. I saw several documentaries about Ballard and also read the book about the discovery. What was found on this last expedition put together all the final pieces so they can be studied. Wood's Hole, where Ballard sailed from, is also deeply involved with this, so I think Ballard probably is still in here also. Wonderful discoveries!

[Likely Guy]

susieice, on 22 November 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Wanted to add just because I'm so excited. Got the tickets for us to go to the 100th Anniversary Titanic Exhibit at the Franklin Institute. February 22nd. Can't wait!

I can't wait either! You got tickets for us!
Hey Taun, I'll swing by and pick you and Regi up. You should tell everyone else!

Road trip! Hey Susie , does everyone need sleeping gear or you okay with that?

Edited by Likely Guy, 22 November 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[Taun]

Likely Guy, on 22 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

I can't wait either! You got tickets for us!
Hey Taun, I'll swing by and pick you and Regi up. You should tell everyone else!

Road trip! Hey Susie , does everyone need sleeping gear or you okay with that?

I'm already packing my jammies!...  Just look for me by the side of the road... I'll be the only moose in the state wearing gloves!...

[Likely Guy]

Taun, on 22 November 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I'm already packing my jammies!...  Just look for me by the side of the road... I'll be the only moose in the state wearing gloves!...

There's more than one moose in Oklahoma? I didn't know that.(You got some gas money?)

Edit: A camel and a moose. Hey Taun, we just have to invite The Mule or it wouldn't be complete. I talked to Susie, she said that it's okay.

Edited by Likely Guy, 22 November 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[susieice]

Likely Guy, on 22 November 2012 - 01:33 AM, said:

I can't wait either! You got tickets for us!
Hey Taun, I'll swing by and pick you and Regi up. You should tell everyone else!

Road trip! Hey Susie , does everyone need sleeping gear or you okay with that?

I'm ok with it! lol.
There's a group of us that enjoy traveling to the Institute. Saw Tut and Cleopatra there. None of us likes to drive in Philly, so we take a bus tour that drops us off in front of the museum and picks us up about 6-8 hours later. That way, we all get there together and we really have a good time. We get entrance to the exhibit, the audio tour (no live guides) and an imax. Would love to see an imax of the Titanic sinking. Hoping, hoping, hoping. Then we eat in the museum cafeteria and go to the other exhibits throughout the museum. Maybe we should just charter our own bus!

http://www.fi.edu/titanic/

Edited by susieice, 22 November 2012 - 04:17 AM.