Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 2 votes

UFOs with Speeds up to 27,000 MPH

ufosfbi green fireballs los alamos project twinkle

  • Please log in to reply
471 replies to this topic

#1    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:09 AM

According to this 1949 FBI report, the objects were spherical and extremely fast, with speeds of three miles per second up to twelve miles per second, or 27,000 miles per hour.  They were first seen in December 1948 and kept returning night after night, usually singly but sometimes in groups.  

Their flight path was East to West and usually level, although sometimes vertical motion was also observed, and their altitude was six to ten miles. Almost always the Los Alamos nuclear labs seemed to be their main "target".  

Calling them "green fireballs" was inaccurate since they could also be red, orange, white or blue, and one spectrum analysis indicated that they were composed of copper compounds similar to those being used in rocket experiments at that time.  Some people speculated that they had a self-destruct mechanism, but in any case they disappeared as fast as they appeared and left no physical traces.

There was no scientific explanation for them, except that there were some never-before seen natural phenomenon or they were man made.


This is just a confidential memorandum, but I have seen some documents related to this case that were classified more highly than that, such as the conclusions by Dr. Lincoln LaPaz that there were definitely not meteorites.

This case was first and foremost an Army matter because it was responsible for the security of Los Alamos and these other nuclear installations, and this issue was taken very seriously.  

Posted Image


http://keyholepublis...-1-31-FBI-2.JPG

http://keyholepublis...-1-31-FBI-3.JPG


#2    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:13 AM

This is the type of "classic" UFO case that always got my interest, especially because it was never really explained.  Richard Dolan regards it as one of the cases that generated some of the most interesting and important UFO documents of all time, like these:


Posted Image


Posted Image


#3    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 30,762 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:21 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 22 November 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:


There was no scientific explanation for them, except that there were some never-before seen natural phenomenon or they were man made.



I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?


I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#4    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:35 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 22 November 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?


I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK


Never saw that one before.  There was an investigation of these UFOs called Project Twinkle, which ended in 1951, but it reached no definite conclusions, at least not according to the records available now.

The military decided not to declassify these records in 1952, when the study had been officially completed because they had no explanation:


"The Scientific Advisory Board Secretariat has suggested that this project not be
declassified for a variety of reasons, chief among which is that no scientific explanation for
any of the 'fireballs' and other phenomena was revealed by the (Project Twinkle) report and
that some reputable scientists still believe that the observed phenomena are man-made."  

Another letter, this time from the Directorate of Intelligence to the Research Division
of the Directorate of Research and Development, dated  March 11, 1952, adds another reason
for withholding the information from the public:

"It is believed that a release of the information to the public in its present condition would
cause undue speculation and give rise to unwarranted fears among the populace such as occurred
in previous releases on unidentified flying objects.  This results from releases when there has
been no real solution."

Gen. William Garland, who had a very long involvement with UFO investigations from the 1940s to the 1960s stated that he did not believe the UFOs were missiles but declined to say what he thought they were.  We know what he thought about UFOs in private, but I have never really seen any public record about his real opinions.  


http://www.google.co...29,r:3,s:0,i:97

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 22 November 2012 - 06:54 AM.


#5    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:40 AM

At one time, Dr. Lincoln LaPaz theorized that they were Soviet missiles flying at an altitude of 25 miles and a speed of 15 miles per second.  This was in February 1949, though, and in all the years since no one has been able to identify any Soviet missiles or aircraft that could have been flying over the US at that time.

They simply did not exist in 1949.

Posted Image


#6    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

According to this 1950 FBI document, there had been 150 sightings of these objects since December 1948, usually in New Mexico and the vicinity of Los Alamos.

We also see that calling them "Green Fireballs" was a complete misnomer because they weren't always green and didn't always have a spherical shape.

Posted Image


#7    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

In 1950, Lincoln LaPaz again speculated that they might be Russian missiles launched from the Urals or US guided missiles, but here again, I am not aware that anyone has even been able to identify them as missiles at all, either from the US or Russia.  LaPaz said that maybe half of them were real meteorites but the rest had to be missiles.

Posted Image

Posted Image


#8    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

They did get some pictures of them at least once, as this 1950 report indicates, which says they were at an altitude of 150,000 feet, about 30 feet in diameter, and traveling at high speeds.

Posted Image


#9    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 30,762 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:46 AM

Size and speed does not negate a meteor though. We get hit with one about the size of a car at least once a year, and they need to be about 25 meters across to survive re-entry and still make it to the surface, allowing it to upgrade it's status to meteorite. Anything smaller is likely to burn up before it hits the ground, and meteors move at about 30 times the speed of a bullet, so they are pretty darn quick.

All the specs fit in with a meteor moving at higher than normal speeds. That may not be the case, but according to the information, I do not think it rules out a meteor with what we know of them today.

Edited by psyche101, 22 November 2012 - 07:47 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#10    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:09 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 22 November 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Size and speed does not negate a meteor though. We get hit with one about the size of a car at least once a year, and they need to be about 25 meters across to survive re-entry and still make it to the surface, allowing it to upgrade it's status to meteorite. Anything smaller is likely to burn up before it hits the ground, and meteors move at about 30 times the speed of a bullet, so they are pretty darn quick.

All the specs fit in with a meteor moving at higher than normal speeds. That may not be the case, but according to the information, I do not think it rules out a meteor with what we know of them today.


Project Twinkle issued a final report in November 1951 which stated basically that there was nothing to report and no further funds should be spent on it.  It is true that the number of sightings seemed to drop off after the project was started.

http://www.google.co...ZEzzbdHSRFFRbfA


Yet they did some some objects that they couldn't explain, and the Air Force was alerted to be ready to send up planes after them, although they were not authorized to open fire in this instance.

"Some photographic activity occurred on 27 April and 24 May, but simultaneous sightings by both cameras were not made, so that no information was gained. On 30 August 1950, during a Bell aircraft missile launching, aerial phenomena were observed over Holloman Air Force Base by several individuals; however, neither Land-Air nor Project personnel were notified and, therefore, no results were acquired. On 31 August 1950, the phenomena were again observed after a V-2 launching.  Although much film was expended, proper triangulation was not effected, so that again no information was acquired.  

On 11 September, arrangements were made by Holloman AFB for. Major. Gover, Commander 93rd Fighter Squadron at Kirtland AFB, to be on call so that aerial objects might be pursued.  This would make possible more intimate visual observation and photography at close range.  Major Gover was not authorized to shoot at the phenomena."


Some parts of the report were clearly not true, such as stating that Clyde Tombaugh had never seen a UFO:


"Mr. B. Guildenberg, who is an assistant to Major Doty and an active amateur astronomer, commented that he has been spending several hours at his telescope almost every night for the past few years and never once observed an unexplainable object;  that on one occasion, an excited acquaintance was pacified when a "strange object" showed up as an eagle in the telescope;  that Clyde Tombaugh, discoverer of the planet Pluto and now engaged in activities at White Sands, never observed an unexplainable aerial object despite his continuous and extensive observations of the sky;  that Fred Whipple in his work photographing meteors at Las Cruces, never detected a strange aerial object with his Schmidt cameras;  and that the A and M College at Las Cruces engages in astronomical observations but had never observed strange aerial phenomena."


This report also mentioned that film had been taken of the UFOs but there was no money in the contract to analyze it!  This was not true either since Edward Ruppelt found out later that such an analysis had been done on at least one occasion.  Bruce Maccabee speculates that this report was written to satisfy the Project Grudge group, who had been order to play down the whole subject of UFOs.


#11    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:18 AM

No one has ever been able to locate any of these Project Twinkle films, although Edward Ruppelt did speak to the men who analyzed them.  The final report did not list the triangulation that had been performed on April 27, 1950 that determined the size and altitude of four to eight of these UFOs, and Ruppelt evidently wasn't told about it either.  He said that he learned:

"Nothing concrete except that the UFOs were unknowns. He did say that by putting a correction factor in the data gathered by the two cameras they were able to arrive at a rough estimate of speed, altitude and size. The UFO was 'higher than 40,000 feet, traveling over 2,000 miles per hour, and it was over 300 feet in diameter.' He cautioned me that these figures were only estimates, based on the possibly erroneous correction factor; therefore they weren't proof of anything - except that something was in the air."

http://www.google.co...BuZR8UafOV3NTmQ


#12    TheMacGuffin

TheMacGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,159 posts
  • Joined:30 Jun 2012

Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

Dr. Anthony Mirarchi, who directed Project Twinkle in its first phase in 1950, thought that the UFOs were Russian missiles and blamed "spies" for the falloff in reports once all the cameras and equipment were in place.


"The fireballs mysteriously ceased appearing before the theodolites could go to work.  Dr. Mirarchi concludes that spies must have tipped off the saucers' home base."  

Mirarchi referred to two sightings for which there was photographic evidence: a single photo of a round glowing object and a motionpicture which "showed one streaking across the sky for one and a half minutes."   Mirarchi went on to say that he was aware that some sightings were actually sightings of balloons, but that "there was too much evidence in favor of saucers to say they could have all been balloons. 'I was conducting the main investigation.  The government had to depend on me or my branch for information.'"

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 22 November 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#13    Yes_Man

Yes_Man

    hi

  • Member
  • 8,085 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portsmouth

Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:31 PM

I thought they said metors too, sometimes the case or project name gives us a clue to what really is.


#14    WoIverine

WoIverine

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 6,717 posts
  • Joined:16 Sep 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 22 November 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

I thought they were explained as typical meteors with an intense shockwave that creates a phenomena similar to an aurora?


I'll have a look for a link - Here it is - Green Fireballs and Ball Lightning. LINK

Meteorites don't typically hover around in the air where everyone can watch them change colors, fly in formation, randomly disappear and reappear.  Ball lightning is also not composed of copper as the spectral anaylysis stated. Swamp gas, eh?


#15    mcrom901

mcrom901

    plasmoid ninja

  • Member
  • 5,600 posts
  • Joined:29 Jan 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:multiverse

  • space debris, decided to evolve and become us!

Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 22 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Ball lightning is also not composed of copper as the spectral anaylysis stated.

'spectral analysis'? can u pls point it out?





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users